Why is there no money in firewood?

[mendiplogs]

HI BILLIY i like your gas bill ours was £220:thumbdown: so i need too cut down on hot water mate too get too £120:thumbup1: a year and eat out alot more:thumbup1: jon

[Billy68]

i have looked at makeing briquettes woodchip has a very high moisture content and is also to course but good idea wish i had got the woodburner with water jacket on

Edited May 10, 2011 by Billy68

[renewablejohn]

Is there a way of turning wood chips into burning blocks ? I've seen a briquette maker for old news paper it's only a press can the same be done with chips?

 

Yes there is a way I do it on a daily basis but dont try it with a newspaper press because it will not work.

 

All you need is woodchip at less than 12% moisture content. A hammer mill and a briquette press. Simples (I forgot about the 50k investment)

[armchairarborist]

or just make a 'woodchip fish supper', tightly wrap some dryish chip in newspaper and pop it in the fire.

[Joy Yeomans]

I was thinking that loads of people, especially those with Audi's and BMW's on the drive are having stoves installed. They have the money.

 

Chaps on here sell them logs and yet all I hear is how there is no money in logs.

 

Now this is not an attack of any kind. I have the utmost respect for anyone who works hard for a living (as I do in a different way). But, I was thinking. Here's all these guys who are happy to spew a few grand over anything which takes their fancy but the people who are supplying the fuel for their ultimate lifestyle accessory are pleading poverty.

 

How can this be? It got me wondering what the answer is. Or what the question is.

 

My view is this. You guys take some arb waste or cord or whatever and make it into logs. You dry it to 25 odd percent, load it into the hilux and dump it on their drive for £80 or whatever. From this you don't make much and yet it's a lot of hard work.

 

Is there a better way of supplying wood fuel to your customers? Would 10% more input yield 100% more income? What if the logs were cleaned of moss / ivy etc and stacked at the customer's premises?

 

I suspect many of you will come back with the argument that there is always some plank who will do a transit load for fifty quid but this is the same in any industry and in any industry there are some people who get the top deals at the top money all the time.

 

 

why do you think we should charge the toff more than the pauper? the toff white collar man usually more difficult to get the money out of in my opinion than the poorer blue collar worker who does recognise hard work and effort and pays on time the asked price with out quibble or barter,

 

most have the opinion of buying kiln dried which takes us foresters mostly out of this market, as its an extra cost in the process that we cant push to, our investment to get logs to the customer is unseen mostly, and we dont plead poverty put profits are tight, we are in recession - people naturally look to the best price for their fuel bills, be it gas electric or wood, we are in a very busy area for competition, we hope to give a value for money product with added value of stacking service, out of hours deliverys to meet customers needs, kindling offered with products, different size of log offered, different types of product offered etc,

 

i dont quite know what you mean with 10% more input for 100% yeild ?

 

we constantly battle against the 2nd job loggers , whether they be treemen or firemen who sell logs, its like all industries i would imagine at the moment customer loyalty is fickle if money is tight, but we do offer a quality service and hope customers will remember that.

 

but i would just reiterate to you that the guys who are firewood men 100% and not doing it for beer money, NEED that sale, its no good holding onto logs if your need to be selling and thats what youve geared up for over the last 8 months thinking our time will come, when lads need a weekly wage and the mortgage needs paying on time and the derv bill wants paying, its all well and good wanting £150m3 and getting 2 sales, but those two sales wont come back to you til theyve burnt it and youve gone and lost the 10 calls who rang up and said your £50 more than your competitor - hes moving wood and your not, you need to price to move and try and keep the profit which is all well and good but when derv keeps going up your profit from the last season starts shrinking even more for the next season when felling costs seem to increase over night and hardwood is even more difficult to find some times this business is too difficult.

 

we fell all our own timber and dont use arb arisings, so our costs have to be covered from the last seasons profits, our hardwood contracts this year have gone up by 25% our softwood contract has gone up by 20% and that is just standing timber price not counting other direct costs

 

i hope this rant goes to give you some idea that we arent all moaning over little things, and that when we say times are difficult - they are in many ways

 

joy

Edited May 10, 2011 by Joy Yeomans

[Treewarrior]

why do you think we should charge the toff more than the pauper? the toff white collar man usually more difficult to get the money out of in my opinion than the poorer blue collar worker who does recognise hard work and effort and pays on time the asked price with out quibble or barter,

 

most have the opinion of buying kiln dried which takes us foresters mostly out of this market, as its an extra cost in the process that we cant push to, our investment to get logs to the customer is unseen mostly, and we dont plead poverty put profits are tight, we are in recession - people naturally look to the best price for their fuel bills, be it gas electric or wood, we are in a very busy area for competition, we hope to give a value for money product with added value of stacking service, out of hours deliverys to meet customers needs, kindling offered with products, different size of log offered, different types of product offered etc,

 

i dont quite know what you mean with 10% more input for 100% yeild ?

 

we constantly battle against the 2nd job loggers , whether they be treemen or firemen who sell logs, its like all industries i would imagine at the moment customer loyalty is fickle if money is tight, but we do offer a quality service and hope customers will remember that.

 

but i would just reiterate to you that the guys who are firewood men 100% and not doing it for beer money, NEED that sale, its no good holding onto logs if your need to be selling and thats what youve geared up for over the last 8 months thinking our time will come, when lads need a weekly wage and the mortgage needs paying on time and the derv bill wants paying, its all well and good wanting £150m3 and getting 2 sales, but those two sales wont come back to you til theyve burnt it and youve gone and lost the 10 calls who rang up and said your £50 more than your competitor - hes moving wood and your not, you need to price to move and try and keep the profit which is all well and good but when derv keeps going up your profit from the last season starts shrinking even more for the next season when felling costs seem to increase over night and hardwood is even more difficult to find some times this business is too difficult.

 

we fell all our own timber and dont use arb arisings, so our costs have to be covered from the last seasons profits, our hardwood contracts this year have gone up by 25% our softwood contract has gone up by 20% and that is just standing timber price not counting other direct costs

 

i hope this rant goes to give you some idea that we arent all moaning over little things, and that when we say times are difficult - they are in many ways

 

joy

Joy you could not have put it any better. I have just finished a 10 hour stint logging in my yard.

 

I don't moan about labour costs I just get on and do it every day I don't have tree work, because when it goes quiet in the winter I will have an asset that I can sell. and yes they are all arisings from my jobs and I can charge what I like to get some sort of income from the leaner months.

 

This 10% hike to the 'toffs'????????????????/

 

Get in the real world man. They are the tightest!

Edited May 10, 2011 by Treewarrior
spelling check due to a couple of glasses of red wine!

[Alycidon]

Toffs and kiln dried. I think you are struggling to see the wood for the trees so to speak.

 

Kiln dried wood sold by Certainly Wood, Timports and others is typically 18-20% moisture. Allegedly the kilning process kills any infestations, that is a benefit that you dont have I agree.

 

I had to chop up a small wind blown oak about three weeks ago, it was still alive as part of the root was still attached. I ringed the bigger (12 inch or so) sections and yesterday the cut faces of these was around 17%. I do appreciate that the centres have some way to go of course but once cut and split you are well on the way to selling a comparable product.

 

I would suggest you buy yourself a wood moisture meter and surprise yourself with the moisture content of your stock. The only thing the Kiln dried has that you dont (given time) is no worms. Just make sure you charge well for it !!. If someone offered you a new car for £4k you would quite rightly think it a pile of crap, the same car at 20k and suddenly it a far better car !!.

 

I am selling stoves, have just had a JAPA 700 delivered today, I will sell air dried english wood this winter at levels that just undercut kiln dried if its dry enough. If not I will sell whats left over from this winter and leave it for the following winter. Maybe I wont sell a lot but I will make money on the good quality product that I do sell. No point being a busy fool.

 

I just need some cheap cord.

 

A

[Fahrenheit]

We're currently buying 1.2 cubic metres at £55, cut, split and seasoned. I'm selling it easily at £110. I can fit three loads on the truck. I'm doing 6 drops on a Saturday and i'm fully booked every Saturday for the next 3 months. I'm getting finished for lunchtime and coming home with approx £300 profit for a mornings work.

 

We have a tidy truck, sign written, nice website, we always answer the phone, we give accurate delivery times and always turn up when we say we're going to. Our prices will go upto £130 - £140 for 1.2 cube in the winter. Not like all the other wood suppliers around here in battered old hilux's doing one load at a time, never answer the phone and when you do get them on the phone they're like...."yeah i'll drop some off in the next week or so"....then when it arrives it's wet. Poor service, no repeat custom means you have to keep your prices low. Customer service is everything in any business.

[Stephen Blair]

High 5 the above, thats the way to do it:thumbup1:

[gensetsteve]

Talk is cheap