Where does your loyalty lie?

[Tom D]

With the tree? or its owner?

 

After recent discussions on another thread I am wondering how most of us feel on this issue.

 

As a Consulting Arborist, I cut and climb as well as providing reports and surveys, I have to say that whatever "hat" I am wearing my first priority has to be with my customer. This has to be the basis for any serious professional relationship.

 

I will not break the law or lie to keep my client happy but I will fight his corner as best I can, this means that if he wants to take a tree down against the wishes of the LA then my job (for which he is paying) is to justify this according to my knowledge of the tree and its situation. This means that I will attempt to find cause for its removal either by citing other neighbouring trees as cover, ie it won't be missed, or by finding fault with the tree itself either disease or structural defects. In my view this is neither unethical or un professional, on the contrary it is in fact the reality of the job, it would be un professional to do anything other than represent your clients as best you can. I have good working relationships with the TO's that I deal with regularly and I beleive that they respect my dedication to my clients, we may not always agree but that is all part of the process, I'm doing my job and they are doing theirs.

 

My job, the way I see it, is to give advice according to the principles of good tree management, and then to (hopefully) carry out the work advised. I have done a lot of conservation work over the years, veteranisation, habitat creation etc, because this was what the clients wanted, I am not simply a lop em and chop em merchant. In cases where I feel the clients wishes are not the best thing for the tree then I will advise them as to the correct path, whatever that may be, however if they really want that tree topped and if I don't do it someone else will..... all I can do is explain the reasons for not doing it and if that isn't enough to disuade them then I will top it (I always use reduction cuts though, even if they are way beyond "acceptable")

 

I don't feel like a cowboy, in fact I think I offer a very good service, I am certainly doing well so I must be doing something right.

 

To give you a couple of analogies, take a planning consultant employed to ease through a planning app for a house that he beleives is hideous and in appropriate for the site. He may advise his client that the house is inappropriate, but if the client wants that house then he has to bite his tongue and do his job.

Or how about a solicitor representiong a client whom he knows to be guilty, the professional approach is to do his best to get his client off the hook, its that simple.

 

So who's approach is un-professional?

[butler]

my loyalty lies with the bank manager and the wifes ccard:001_tt2:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I understand that i am no longer an arborist, something I should have deduced some time ago, so my opinion is biassed and not worth entering.

 

I am simply now going through the motions till i can re train and get out!

 

recent thoughts have indeed influenced this, for I have come to realise that arborists are not middle men between trees and man, but experts in making people happy and in deducing the best excuse for a trees removal.

 

I cant be involved in a business like this, its ecologically unsustainable, and i cant live with it.

[Sam Thompson]

I understand that i am no longer an arborist, something I should have deduced some time ago, so my opinion is biassed and not worth entering.

 

I am simply now going through the motions till i can re train and get out!

 

recent thoughts have indeed influenced this, for I have come to realise that arborists are not middle men between trees and man, but experts in making people happy and in deducing the best excuse for a trees removal.

 

I cant be involved in a business like this, its ecologically unsustainable, and i cant live with it.

 

Can I ask, and feel free to say no, what you are? Or what you would like to be Ham?

 

 

I find your posts some of the most interesting to read on here, I like your view of tree living. As I say, I know its not my place to ask, but I am so very nosey

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Sam.

[RobArb]

so do you class yourself as an ecologist hama? (innocent curious question thats all:blushing:)

 

Its a hard subject really and one with a lot more grey areas than just black and white, every situation i feel is different

 

i suppose its also a question about morals on what you would do as so far as being able to earn a living,

 

Tom, there is nothing wrong with your outlook on this subject and reasons you state for what you do are valid and suit your needs

 

I on the other hand would probably put the needs of the tree first even if that meant i would probably in this day and age end up out of pocket..

 

but as with hama i feel my route lies elsewhere (still in the trees though) so that is why i have made my decisionm hope this makes sense to someone!

[Old Mill Tree Care]

I'm with you on that Samsaw. Hama's posts are certainly some of the most intellectual on here and will be sorely missed.

So what's the scoop Hama?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Can I ask, and feel free to say no, what you are? Or what you would like to be Ham?

 

 

I find your posts some of the most interesting to read on here, I like your view of tree living. As I say, I know its not my place to ask, but I am so very nosey

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Sam.

 

I am currently a climber, and have been for the last 24 years, I have hobbied in ecology, aquatic (fisheries) and temperate forests, becoming increasingly interested in bats.

 

that thread on the big beech, that got to me, and its time I got out of this game, I cant change this industry, it enjoys the smash and grab too much, the toys the big drops, its lost its luster more and more as I learn more about trees, and learn more about just how crap 99% of the work we all do as an industry is.

 

maybe i will get over this downer but i cant see it, I know too much now.

 

I want to be a consultant, but then i cant afford the level 6 quals so thats for the time being out of the equation. maybe i will be a writer, and just supply information, that maybe allows others to come to similar conclusions.

[Taupotreeman]

Interesting reading your post there Hama. I was taught at college (conservation at Riseholme) by a guy who started out as an arborist, turned lecturer in arb, turned lecturer in conservation and now runs his own outfit called Border ecology. I think he is now soley into preservation, conservation and enviromental stuff (stuff probably not being the optimum descriptive word to use) and provides councils etc with enviromentally sound planning etc. Is this more the kind of thing? He's a really nice guy to boot so might have a few pointers if that's your thing.

[Nick B]

The Client every time, the tree will not pay my wages or feed my family

I am with Tom on this one 100%

I will do the best I can and will try to get the Client to get things done properly

but what the customer wants is what the customer gets as long as no laws are broken.

[High Scale]

I understand that i am no longer an arborist, something I should have deduced some time ago, so my opinion is biassed and not worth entering.

 

I am simply now going through the motions till i can re train and get out!

 

recent thoughts have indeed influenced this, for I have come to realise that arborists are not middle men between trees and man, but experts in making people happy and in deducing the best excuse for a trees removal.

 

I cant be involved in a business like this, its ecologically unsustainable, and i cant live with it.

 

That's very honest of you and I applaude you for posting now and for sharing your knowledge here, I really wish you the best for the future, I am sure it will be bright.