This months Essential Arb - Cut and hold

[mistahbenn]

Good post Tom D.

[Heads up]

I cut and chuck alot. Its mainly down to the fact it was what i saw happening whilst learning the job and i've done it ever since. I go through periods of trying not to but i end up doing it again. Iv'e got in the habbit of keeping my thumb on the off switch so (in my mind) if kick back happens i'll turn the saw off much like a chain break action.

Its when i find myself crossing my arms that i kick myself as that really is stupid!

Cutting and chucking is quicker when there isn't any good drop zone fact.

 

What i do wish was that the physical effects of cut n chuck was made know to thoose on NPTC courses, i know many with tendon, joint, muscle problems due to it including me.

so do i think its a good thing, not realy, but i feel its an evil that will always be.... time is money.

[Will Cobb]

One handed chainsaw use should only happen at the extremitys. Thats what NPTC guidelines say. Top handeled chainsaws are not designed for one handed use. In my eyes its just lazy and the problem is that when a new climber comes into the industry they see everyone else doing it so then they think it is acceptable. Ive been lucky enough to have been told that its wrong from day one i mean whats wrong with using a sling, setting a rigging line up or just using your silky if the limb is small. Maybe climbers feel under pressure to do it i dont know but its not quicker and the risks are ALWAYS stacked against you.

[Matt Butler]

ive been watching this post witgh interest and have to say that i admire skyhuck's honesty, so im gonna be honest even if i get shot down.

 

What i want to say is this, i mostly use a top handled with 1 hand, i find it easier, quicker, and it some situations (particularly cutting and holding) safer, to use it one handed. I also use it left handed in some situations.

 

I have never come close to cutting myself.

[Albedo]

Herein followeth my VERY long tuppence worth.

This is what I do….

 

1) Work the tree clockwise (Imagine looking down on it to see what I mean). This presents right handed people to the branch with holding hand on the left and cutting hand on the right, closest to the trunk. This is one handed use but arms don’t cross. Left handers, I presume go the other way.

 

2) If I find myself presented to a branch the wrong way, then I sometimes use a sling to hold the branch to another branch, or to its own stub, to avoid crossing arms and to hold onto it while I cut. The sling with its crab is the only thing above normal standard kit that is always with me. I also use the sling for branches that are a bit heavy to hand hold. This also allows two hands on the saw.

 

3) I do use a conventional step cut and break off, if I’m not over a greenhouse and can’t be bothered to get the sling out. I prefer not to do this on less vertical branches over targets and will usually use the sling. It gets quite quick once you get used to it.

 

4) When cutting one handed I have the branch close in on the dogs and also check my grip, my footing, my work position, my prussic … certain I ain’t gonna slip, before cutting. Thinking about where the saw will end up and at what revs and if there is a chance that I would not have control. I want break on or saw off at the end of the cut before I worry about the held branch. All of these checks and more are done all the time and for every cut and are done almost without thinking, but at the same time not without thinking, because I’m up a tree so I’m concentrating

 

JJG (arbtalk member) who had the nasty cut posted on here from crossed arm cutting, either thanked me for this tip, about the sling, or agreed with it a couple of years ago. I guess he couldn’t be bothered to get the sling out that time. I’m sure he would agree that he now wishes that he had.

 

I did all this before arbtalk was available and to the current time, since joining arbtalk the point that one handed cutters could bring about the banning of the top handled climbing saw, has been raised. Something that has nearly happened before. Some people may wish to consider not one handing for the good of the industry.

 

I also suffer tennis elbow, which is another thing that I hadn’t considered so much as a consequence of one handed use pre arbtalk.

 

The H&S thing is strange. Over the years the goalposts move. A bit like smoking cigarettes. You develop the habit when you’re young then over decades public opinion changes. Smoking was recommended by doctors when I was born. I’m over 50 so I have an excuse perhaps for my personal smoking and chainsaw habits. Would I recommend smoking, no I would not but I smoke. Would I recommend one handed saw use to a newbie, no I wouldn’t but I do it. The above methods are intended as ….IF YOU MUST THEN HERE’S A BIT SAFER WAY, BUT PERHAPS FOR THE FUTURE IT SHOULD BE DISCOURAGED.

 

Disclaimer. I’m working on a disclaimer that will be my signature, but I don’t answer nitpickers, people who misquote me, or people who accuse me of having an agenda. People who get what I’m saying but exercise their right to disagree… fire away but I still probably won’t answer.

 

I'm going to have an early glass of wine after that and as it's sunday:001_smile:

[White Noise]

Herein followeth my VERY long tuppence worth.

This is what I do….

 

1) Work the tree clockwise (Imagine looking down on it to see what I mean). This presents right handed people to the branch with holding hand on the left and cutting hand on the right, closest to the trunk. This is one handed use but arms don’t cross. Left handers, I presume go the other way.

 

2) If I find myself presented to a branch the wrong way, then I sometimes use a sling to hold the branch to another branch, or to its own stub, to avoid crossing arms and to hold onto it while I cut. The sling with its crab is the only thing above normal standard kit that is always with me. I also use the sling for branches that are a bit heavy to hand hold. This also allows two hands on the saw.

 

3) I do use a conventional step cut and break off, if I’m not over a greenhouse and can’t be bothered to get the sling out. I prefer not to do this on less vertical branches over targets and will usually use the sling. It gets quite quick once you get used to it.

 

4) When cutting one handed I have the branch close in on the dogs and also check my grip, my footing, my work position, my prussic … certain I ain’t gonna slip, before cutting. Thinking about where the saw will end up and at what revs and if there is a chance that I would not have control. I want break on or saw off at the end of the cut before I worry about the held branch. All of these checks and more are done all the time and for every cut and are done almost without thinking, but at the same time not without thinking, because I’m up a tree so I’m concentrating

 

JJG (arbtalk member) who had the nasty cut posted on here from crossed arm cutting, either thanked me for this tip, about the sling, or agreed with it a couple of years ago. I guess he couldn’t be bothered to get the sling out that time. I’m sure he would agree that he now wishes that he had.

 

I did all this before arbtalk was available and to the current time, since joining arbtalk the point that one handed cutters could bring about the banning of the top handled climbing saw, has been raised. Something that has nearly happened before. Some people may wish to consider not one handing for the good of the industry.

 

I also suffer tennis elbow, which is another thing that I hadn’t considered so much as a consequence of one handed use pre arbtalk.

 

The H&S thing is strange. Over the years the goalposts move. A bit like smoking cigarettes. You develop the habit when you’re young then over decades public opinion changes. Smoking was recommended by doctors when I was born. I’m over 50 so I have an excuse perhaps for my personal smoking and chainsaw habits. Would I recommend smoking, no I would not but I smoke. Would I recommend one handed saw use to a newbie, no I wouldn’t but I do it. The above methods are intended as ….IF YOU MUST THEN HERE’S A BIT SAFER WAY, BUT PERHAPS FOR THE FUTURE IT SHOULD BE DISCOURAGED.

 

Disclaimer. I’m working on a disclaimer that will be my signature, but I don’t answer nitpickers, people who misquote me, or people who accuse me of having an agenda. People who get what I’m saying but exercise their right to disagree… fire away but I still probably won’t answer.

 

I'm going to have an early glass of wine after that and as it's sunday:001_smile:

 

Red or White ?

[Albedo]

Red or White ?

 

Happy to answer that one.

 

Its red..... Haveing drunk enough Chilean Carmenere to sink a battleship in recent years , I've gone for a French Shiraz/Grenache blend for tonight. It might wash down the dictionary I seem to have swallowed:thumbup1:

[ben lightfoot]

ive been watching this post witgh interest and have to say that i admire skyhuck's honesty, so im gonna be honest even if i get shot down.

 

What i want to say is this, i mostly use a top handled with 1 hand, i find it easier, quicker, and it some situations (particularly cutting and holding) safer, to use it one handed. I also use it left handed in some situations.

 

I have never come close to cutting myself.

 

but didn't your bro cut his arm cutting and chucking?

[Alinicoll]

Since i got a small nick on my wrist doing an awkward cut and chuck i have thought alot more before using that method. I still do use it but am much more likely to reach for the silky or a webbing strop.

 

Iv'e got in the habbit of keeping my thumb on the off switch so (in my mind) if kick back happens i'll turn the saw off much like a chain break action.

 

When i cut myself the chain was hardly turning. 2 cutters bit into my wrist. I was wearing gloves so the second cutter threw the saw away from my wrist. It was a bit of a mess but no major damage. I emphasise the chain was hardly moving. If it had been going any faster there would have been major damage. if you think you can switch off your saw faster than it can kick you are wrong my friend.

 

 

I think there are many situations were cut and chuck is a valid approach but alternatives should always be considered. Wrists are soft and its not until you have a near miss that you realize how vunerable you are.

[butler]

but didn't your bro cut his arm cutting and chucking?

 

No when i cut my arm i was using the saw with two hands to knock the top out off a tree.....Ben i dont know you or how long you have been climbing for or where you where taught but........... you have to rember for people like myself. ie I am 30 years old and have been climbing for 15 years and very simply we where taught very differnty to how things are done today....for example i hardly attach a seond strop to cut (i guess we where taught to use our legs to help with better postitioning) i only ever use two hands on the saw if i cutting out a gob......and a accident it just that a accident. I belive in hard work and also to be completly honest i belive in taking a caculated risk for a reward (and i have had some good rewards and done well from this industry)....HOWEVER HAVING SAID THAT I AM ALSO VERY AWARE THAT I NEAD TO BE MORE FORWARD THINKING IN MY CLIMBING METHODS AND MOVE WITH THE TIMES...hence me joing this forum in a effort to gain knowledge and new skils...P.S excuse the spelling CBA to spell check. hope you take this the right way...thoughts plz