Advice for line of beech close to house

[Big J]

Looking for some advice regarding a line of ten beech at the bottom of the garden of my mum's neighbour's house.

 

The trees are all reasonably mature beech, with an average 18 inch dbh (though up to 24 inches), in a line perhaps 25ft long (very close together). They average 65ft (at best guess), but some are a bit taller. They are 40ft from my mum's and mum's neighbours houses, with some of the branches a few feet from my mum's windows.

 

There is no line of fell, all would have to be sectioned and rigged. There is no access beyond a normal side gate, and the gardens are steep with lots of steps.

 

The trees are TPO covered, and are actually in the garden of the house that backs onto the bottom of my mum's garden. As it happens, the trees are 150ft from their house.

 

My concerns regarding the trees are:

 

* Many of them lean severely

* One has an extensive pocket of rot 2ft from ground level. Rot seems dry, riddled with woodworm, and is 3ft tall and 1ft high. Would estimate 60-70% of tree cross section is no longer structurally sound.

* The ground level seems to have been steadily increased by 1-2ft over a reasonable amount of time. Oxygen starvation for the roots? No external signs of ill health to support this though.

* They are essentially 70ft trees, 40ft from several houses. They are far far too close together, and I would say only one is a reasonable tree, in terms of form and shape.

 

To complicate matters, the owners of the trees are putting their house on the market next week, so aren't in any hurry to do anything.

 

In addition, my mum is considering moving (unrelated reasons). So....

 

* Given the proximity of the trees to the house, should they be removed (if it can be justified to the local TO)? I'm not a tree surgeon, but given the difficulties of access and felling, I would guess a day for each tree for a team of three. 10 days - £6-7k?

* Who should pay?

* Should my mum just move house?!

 

Any advice greatly appreciated, can get photos tomorrow.

 

Jonathan

[Matthew Arnold]

We had a situation very similar to this on one of the pieces of land i manage. We had a line/spinney of mature beech, corsican pine and maritime pine. We got several quote from tree surgeons whilst we had the two local authority TO. One of the TO was up for having any tree with severe rot or masses of squirrel damage to be felled. The other was on about having them aerially inspected before removal. These trees were approx 80 ft tall and not even 30 ft away from houses. We had about 50 % of them felled, 25 % were left as monoliths and 25% were deadwooded and tidied. The LA paid for the tree work. So in theory the land owner who has the trees on his/her land should pay for the work. The TO should come out and do a thorough inspection of all of the trees and mark them accordingly.

[Arborist]

I think that the tree owners would have to supply a tree report backing up the decay and the affects this may have on the tree and any other problems that may be there.

None of my local councils would pay for this!

[Martyn Amos]

if the trees are dangerous,rotten etc

cant the tpos be removed and the owners force by the la to make the trees safe:001_huh:

are the new owners going to move in,and have a nice big bill to pay:confused1:

[geoff]

If you could acertain in writing from the la,and or tree consultant,that works were needed due to safety issues (if such exist),and contact the owners solicitors they would have to declare this to any potential house purchase clients,or get it sorted.

If there is an issue no one would touch the property with a barge pole, as they would be buying a problem and liability.

[Tree Doctor]

Obtain from the Local Authority Tree Officer a copy of the TPO order. This will give the information of the trees and the owner of the trees. Ask the Tree Officer if they have received any tree Reports in the past.

 

You then have several options open to you. You can contact the Owners of the trees and raise your concerns. Do this in writing so there is a record of this. You can on your own contact a tree company who understand English Tree Law and By Laws.

 

Forget about contacting Solicitors, they are clueless when it comes to Tree Law and anything within by laws about trees, trespass of trees, dangerous trees etc.

 

Please note if you contact your own Tree Surgeon they by law have no right to climb the tree as it belongs to your neighbour, only a ground based assessment can be carried out until permission is granted by your neighbour. Also a Tree officer is NOT ALLOWED to climb or gain access to the tree crowns other than by having his feet on the ground. Simply a Tree Officer is not insured to leave Terra Firma. However a tree Surgeon feels there is sufficent evidence that the Tree's are dangerous then they can climb, and can under certain circumstances make the tree/s safe. But make sure you know the law before you go tree hoping!

 

You mention the trees have a heavy lean. A good tree company can view this lean from the ground and give you a rating of the potential zone factors related if failure incurs, i.e, if the failure of a tree is in the striking zone of your Mothers home due to failure from a poor specimen then this would equate to a HIGH RISK. This should then be passed on to the owner of the trees, the TO and if needs be your Solicitor.

 

Just because both parties want to sell up and move does not remove the problem, in fact it can raise a serious issue with both properties. As you mention your Mother wanting to move, then simply ask your Mother's estate agent for a tree report from your neighbour. This will then bring the matter to a very abrupt head where you then have legal rights over your neighbour in obtaining a report. Mortgage lenders are becoming more and more aware of trees and there problems. Any potential buyer of either home would be notified of the TPO'd trees, and a lot of mortgage companies would want a report to make sure there investment is safe.

 

Use the law to your advantage, but be mindful most of what you need to know comes from the brains of a good Tree Surgeon and not the Tree Officer, and certainly not some high street solicitor who usually make matters a lot worse.

 

And finally after reading your post the felling zone is in the owners of the trees garden. Give them the problem, and let them worry about it, but get a good Tree Surgeon on board to help you.

[treequip]

 

.

 

 

Welcome to the forum, a few questions it I may

Forget about contacting Solicitors, they are clueless when it comes to Tree Law and anything within by laws about trees, trespass of trees, dangerous trees etc.

Are you saying solicitors do not understand the tort of nuisance?

Please note if you contact your own Tree Surgeon they by law have no right to climb the tree as it belongs to your neighbour, only a ground based assessment can be carried out until permission is granted by your neighbour.

Well that’s true but what’s the penalty for having a shufty? Its trespass so a civil offence. As long as you do no damage in the act the only option would be an injunction to prevent a re occourence.

Simply a Tree Officer is not insured to leave Terra Firma.

Surely what each authorities officers are insured for is dependant on what that authority decides. Many TO’s are expected to be able to perform an aerial inspection

However a tree Surgeon feels there is sufficent evidence that the Tree's are dangerous then they can climb, and can under certain circumstances make the tree/s safe. But make sure you know the law before you go tree hoping!

Do you want to expand on that? Under what circumstances?

Just because both parties want to sell up and move does not remove the problem, in fact it can raise a serious issue with both properties. As you mention your Mother wanting to move, then simply ask your Mother's estate agent for a tree report from your neighbour.

And they will likely tell you to boil your head.

This will then bring the matter to a very abrupt head where you then have legal rights over your neighbour in obtaining a report.

What legal rights are those?

[treequip]

Looking for some advice regarding a line of ten beech at the bottom of the garden of my mum's neighbour's house.

 

The trees are all reasonably mature beech, with an average 18 inch dbh (though up to 24 inches), in a line perhaps 25ft long (very close together). They average 65ft (at best guess), but some are a bit taller. They are 40ft from my mum's and mum's neighbours houses, with some of the branches a few feet from my mum's windows.

 

There is no line of fell, all would have to be sectioned and rigged. There is no access beyond a normal side gate, and the gardens are steep with lots of steps.

 

The trees are TPO covered, and are actually in the garden of the house that backs onto the bottom of my mum's garden. As it happens, the trees are 150ft from their house.

 

My concerns regarding the trees are:

 

* Many of them lean severely

* One has an extensive pocket of rot 2ft from ground level. Rot seems dry, riddled with woodworm, and is 3ft tall and 1ft high. Would estimate 60-70% of tree cross section is no longer structurally sound.

* The ground level seems to have been steadily increased by 1-2ft over a reasonable amount of time. Oxygen starvation for the roots? No external signs of ill health to support this though.

* They are essentially 70ft trees, 40ft from several houses. They are far far too close together, and I would say only one is a reasonable tree, in terms of form and shape.

 

To complicate matters, the owners of the trees are putting their house on the market next week, so aren't in any hurry to do anything.

 

In addition, my mum is considering moving (unrelated reasons). So....

 

* Given the proximity of the trees to the house, should they be removed (if it can be justified to the local TO)? I'm not a tree surgeon, but given the difficulties of access and felling, I would guess a day for each tree for a team of three. 10 days - £6-7k?

* Who should pay?

* Should my mum just move house?!

 

Any advice greatly appreciated, can get photos tomorrow.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan are these trees north of the border?

 

Scottish law can be quite different to English.

 

The owner of the trees owes a duty of care to other and ought to ensure that the trees are in good order.

 

The best you can do as a landowner is make the other party aware of this. You can make them aware of any defects that may not be readily visible from their side.

 

In the UK if a tree represent an imminent danger the LA has powers under the miscellaneous provisions act to enforce action. I don’t know if this extends to Scotland

 

Andy

[Big J]

Thanks for all the feedback folks! A lot to digest. I forgot to say as well that the trees are in Belper, Derbyshire.

 

Here are a handful of photos of the offending trees - as usual, the photos don't quite illustrate just how close they are or their size, but it's the best I could do!

 

 

 

 

 

Jonathan

[Stephen Blair]

keep things simple, knock their door ask if they would mind taking a look at the trees with youas you are concerned. If they slam the door in your face, take the advice from the guys above, if they are descent folk, explain your links to tree work, have a bit of a look with them, ask what they want from their trees, if its just privacy then discuss a reduction and removal of the dodgey ones, they will soon mention if they are willing to pay or not, also mention you have some good contacts for tree surgeons, get some of your mates together and you do the ground work, get a climber in ask then to cover his wages etc and go for it, after that its just the council next, and if everyone involved is singing from the same song sheet, happy days.

or give me £6k and i will do it:thumbup: