prices.

[baz]

firewood 9.35KWh/kg :laugh1:

 

you bunch of fools that more than coal!

 

firewood is <5.55KWh/kg for hardwood

 

gensesteve came up with a gem of a link in a calorific value of wood thread a few months back and at £100/m3 for hardwood equates to 10.8p/kWh. Looking at the charts that has to be for green wood. Seasoned wood pitches in at 3.8p/kWh per ton which I find yields around 1.5m3 of bagged logs which tallies pretty well with BigJ's end figure however he got there. Bit off topic here but I do print the gensetsteve linked doc on the back of all my invoices to demonstrate what great value wood is as is coal relative to other fuels.

Edited December 17, 2010 by baz

[b101uk]

Why not just put your figures in, in a helpful way.

 

edit: B101uk

 

I would add that I've done this maths before on arbtalk, and have it somewhere on my external hard drive, gonna look now. All of this however is in the context of this thread and Big J's figures were the first offered.

 

gensesteve came up with a gem of a link in a calorific value of wood thread a few months back and at £100/m3 for hardwood equates to 10.8p/kWh. Looking at the charts that has to be for green wood. Seasoned wood pitches in at 3.8p/kWh per ton which I find yields around 1.5m3 of bagged logs which tallies pretty well with BigJ's end figure however he got there. Bit off topic here but I do print the gensetsteve linked doc on the back of all my invoices to demonstrate what great value wood is as is coal relative to other fuels.

 

I really don’t care who offers figures but <5.55KWh/kg is as good as it gets for the best dryest firewood and the reality is most seasoned hardwood <20% moisture by weight is in the range of 3.7 to 4.6KWh/kg and this is backed up by multiple governments documentation not just in the UK but in the EU.

 

Also on the 1st Dec I paid 50.35p/L for kero (inc VAT), 1000L of kero is 10210KWh which is 4.93p per KWh, that is an undisputable FACT because kero is known to be 10.21KWh/L or ~12.72KWh/kg (1L = ~0.802kg)

[gensetsteve]

I dont care about btu's. Logs to me are a top end luxury purchase not a cheap form of heating. If I wanted to provide fuel on a small margin I would buy a tanker and deliver kero. Logs has to be one of the most difficult fuels to offer. The hidden costs of processing obviously put paid to large companies cashing in ( ie not enough profit in it ) Logs are an accessory that enables people to enjoy a past time ie wood burning. You get the visual effect of logs burning, the advantage of not being sat in stale air from central heating. Logs will heat your house and you are being green at the same time. Today I have a letter telling me cord wood has gone up 20% . No problem but if customers stop buying wood so will I. There is no way I am absorbing that in to my costs And now think I will be pushing towards £100 a cube.

[18 stoner]

Steve, I agree totally. About 15 years ago I used to do a "log run" dropping the odd few small bags here and there. At one point, I had around 40 seperate customers, but only one of them required logs for heating.

[18 stoner]

They still however expect quality!

[baz]

Also on the 1st Dec I paid 50.35p/L for kero (inc VAT), 1000L of kero is 10210KWh which is 4.93p per KWh, that is an undisputable FACT because kero is known to be 10.21KWh/L or ~12.72KWh/kg (1L = ~0.802kg)

 

Facts are strange things. Oil has gone up by 40% since you bought two weeks ago due to supply and demand. Maybe wood retailers need to follow suit to better align the kwh cost of wood to that of oil.

[csservices]

I'm still pondering how come logs are a luxury item? If thats the case so is gas and electric, all three will keep you warm difference is only one of them is renewable and not controlled by fat cat companies, well not yet at least.......

[b101uk]

Facts are strange things. Oil has gone up by 40% since you bought two weeks ago due to supply and demand. Maybe wood retailers need to follow suit to better align the kwh cost of wood to that of oil.

 

:laugh1:

 

that’s precisely the kind of utter bullsh!t that doesn’t help your case because I KNOW it hasn’t as I ordered 1000L of kero today for delivery to one of my industrial building for delivery on the 5th Jan and it was 49.73p/L inc VAT so it was cheaper than 16 days ago.

 

However I do know that that almost every fuel supplier in snow affected area at the beginning of the month has a backlog of orders that they have got to get on top of along with keeping up with there normal orders this time of year, there is NO shortage of fuel its just a shortage of tankers and drivers to get back on top of things quickly which is why some fuel supplier are refusing to take on new customers until the end of the first week in Jan and others are giving silly high prices to discourage new customers unless they are fool enough to tie into the high price for post xmas delivery.

 

On the other hand if you talk about gas oil then yes that has gone up because ULS gas oil cost 1.5p to 3p more per L than the old gas oil of 1 month ago and agened fuel suppliers are faced with a backlog of orders.

 

DERV has gone up a little due to the quantity now being dyed red to get ULS gas oil (which has also pushed up ULS gas oil a bit to), however if base stocks for petroleum fuels had gone up by 40% they it would have gone up by 40% at the pump which it hasn’t.

Edited December 17, 2010 by b101uk

[Andy Collins]

I spoke to the driver today of our local oil company. Domestic heating oil today, through his company, is 76.9ppl, compared in october when I filled up at 42.6ppl. On our local BBC station the local MP was discussing the probability of heating oil rationing due to unprecedented demand.

[gensetsteve]

:laugh1:

 

that’s precisely the kind of utter bullsh!t that doesn’t help your case because I KNOW it hasn’t as I ordered 1000L of kero today for delivery to one of my industrial building for delivery on the 5th Jan and it was 49.73p/L inc VAT so it was cheaper than 16 days ago.

 

However I do know that that almost every fuel supplier in snow affected area at the beginning of the month has a backlog of orders that they have got to get on top of along with keeping up with there normal orders this time of year, there is NO shortage of fuel its just a shortage of tankers and drivers to get back on top of things quickly which is why some fuel supplier are refusing to take on new customers until the end of the first week in Jan and others are giving silly high prices to discourage new customers unless they are fool enough to tie into the high price for post xmas delivery.

 

On the other hand if you talk about gas oil then yes that has gone up because ULS gas oil cost 1.5p to 3p more per L than the old gas oil of 1 month ago and agened fuel suppliers are faced with a backlog of orders.

 

DERV has gone up a little due to the quantity now being dyed red to get ULS gas oil (which has also pushed up ULS gas oil a bit to), however if base stocks for petroleum fuels had gone up by 40% they it would have gone up by 40% at the pump which it hasn’t.

 

It would make no difference if it was 30p a litre you have not had it delivered yet. i would have a back up plan let us know if you get some on the 5th. Last January customers told me they were paying £400 to have an emergency top up of 200 litres. Even customers on a top up plan were hung out to dry.