prices.

[Albedo]

but if you put into your calculations of the efficiency of peoples stoves (or worse, their open fire) then you get a worse figure considering the best stoves usually come in at around 65% whilst modern gas boilers are 95-98% effiecent. (rocket stoves get higher to around 80-90% but they are still a home made niche speciality)

 

Then consider the time of stacking, filling baskets and moving it around you home.

 

I love a wood stove. Nothing like it. But with two stoves and two open fires at home and four stoves and four fires at work, boy am i ****** off with splitting and shifting fire wood.

 

If you burn any fuel in an inneficient way, or lose heat because you left the window open for that matter, it doesn't affect the validity of Big J's calculation, so its irrelevant. So is how many stoves you have or how much you like chopping wood. The Kwh calculation remains valid.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Albedo
typo

[Albedo]

The tricky thing about the calculation that Big J did is that all the different fuel types come in different weights and measures and you have to get them all into the same units in order to do a calculation. Also, there are variables such as price, water content (where relevant) etc. However once you come up with some numbers which I think in this case was Kw/kg they can be converted into other units which different people may prefer using conversion tables. I had these before I did a system restore on the laptop so put them on an external hard drive. Might have a look for them at some point:001_smile:.

[18 stoner]

Well done Big J.

 

Another point being overlooked is carbon footprint. Regardless of cost compared to gas, oil and eleccy, log burners are the ethical choice. Surely?

[davetaz]

People that buy logs couldn't care less about calorific values of different types of seasoned/wet logs. All they want is something that burns on an open fire or log burner and gives some sort of flame. All they ever ask is "how much for how many? "

Far too many variables to properly compare against other fuel

 

Once you start "over regulating" a small scale localised industry many will be put out of bisiness or decide to stop selling logs and so so so many people will end up with out any firewood.

 

The only regulation that is likely to happen is the volume v weight issue

[Albedo]

People that buy logs couldn't care less about calorific values of different types of seasoned/wet logs. All they want is something that burns on an open fire or log burner and gives some sort of flame. All they ever ask is "how much for how many? "

Far too many variables to properly compare against other fuel

 

Once you start "over regulating" a small scale localised industry many will be put out of bisiness or decide to stop selling logs and so so so many people will end up with out any firewood.

 

The only regulation that is likely to happen is the volume v weight issue

 

There's a few points to address here and its touchy ground, so I would like to point out that I genuinely believe that all woodcutters are hard working and honest individuals although subject to normal human foibles such as greed, avarice etc.

 

The points are to do with: (these are not all of them)

 

- What price will the market bear, i.e. just get as much money as you can for as little wood as you can get away with... fair enough.

 

- Yes the customer doesn't care about calorific value etc but somebody has to work out what is a fair deal for them. Can be a useful marketing tool too.

 

- You need to know how much wood to throw on your truck or you might give them too much, and judging by other threads some people are giving them too much.

 

I stress that I am not suggesting dishonesty, and do not believe that hard working wood cutters have it in them:001_smile: I don't believe that these threads are about 'over regulation' but about working out what is fair and reasonable for all.

 

 

By the way 18 stoner, your'e right about the ethical angle but a cynic would say, buy coastal land in Greenland:001_smile: I'm a cynic:001_smile:

[baz]

Regarding price of timber per kilowatt - did a few calculations:

 

Taking the average weights of Birch, Beech, Oak and Ash, a solid cubic meter weighs 700kg. A loose load of a cube is about half that, so you can assume that there is about 350kg of timber there.

 

Again, taking the average of the four timbers listed above, there is an approximate kw value of 9.35kw per kilo, resulting in an average total kilowatt value of 3272 a cubic meter. At £100 a cubic meter, and on a stove with 70% efficiency, the customer is paying 4.36 pence a kilowatt.

 

Natural gas comes in at 3.9 pence, oil at 6.3 pence and electricity at 13 pence.

 

4.36 pence seemed damned cheap. Time to start charging more chaps.

 

My cubic meter bagged harwood logs weigh in at 600-650kg. I know that as the courier I use for deliveries weighs them. My £120 a bag is reasonable and I have lots of repeat customers that clearly think so too. Why people would sell cheap simply because their wood is free baffels me. As BigJ says wood is a good buy at a top end price so those with access to free wood should be smiling broadly all the way to the bank..

Edited December 16, 2010 by baz

[robbo 110]

My cubic meter bagged harwood logs weigh in at 600-650kg. I know that as the courier I use for deliveries weighs them. My £120 a bag is reasonable and I have lots of repeat customers that clearly think so too. Why people would sell cheap simply because their wood is free baffels me. As BigJ says wood is a good buy at a top end price.

 

baz, have you ever wondered how accurate your courier's scales might not be?? that sounds heavy to me, far too heavy? just my thoughts thou!!

[b101uk]

firewood 9.35KWh/kg :laugh1:

 

you bunch of fools that more than coal!

 

firewood is <5.55KWh/kg for hardwood

[baz]

baz, have you ever wondered how accurate your courier's scales might not be?? that sounds heavy to me, far too heavy? just my thoughts thou!!

 

It ties in with the delivered weight as I'm processing 35 - 40 bags per load, roughly 1.5 bags per ton. I'd prefer if it was lighter as the courier charges more for pallets once they go over 500kg. Maybe I should move to soft woods?

[Albedo]

Why not just put your figures in, in a helpful way.

 

edit: B101uk

 

I would add that I've done this maths before on arbtalk, and have it somewhere on my external hard drive, gonna look now. All of this however is in the context of this thread and Big J's figures were the first offered.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Albedo