Whats Wrong With the Current System.

[skyhuck]

For the record the only people i'll ever train up again are my kids!

 

[Arbocop]

well hear we go ill keep this as short as i can and as well spelt as i can., ive made some note s going throuugh all the posts and will try and focus on what the orriginal question was, and a few that have reared there head along the way.

 

you may all be thrilled to know that variouse reps from AFAG have read this thread including the HSE, large employers reps from TTG etc etc but no one officially representing LANTAR NPTC was at the meeting, because as it was pointed out 'they would have a vested interst in not changing for the better/worse.

 

now i belive in the right education fr the right person, delivered in the right way for them. i also l;ove to se learning taking place, alas i have observed many cources were there was a lot of teaching going on but not a lot of learning.!!!!

 

now trainers are slaves to our tree man back round in so much as we all htink we are the best and no one can be better, and to knoock myself as much as some of my collges we do have a habbit of starting to belive our own propogander!!! this is why i like the fact that every 5 years forthos skills i teach i now have to be re certiifcated, and ive just been through 2 lots and was told quite clearly were i was missing the point. this is a positive change that has happened on the training side and is helping to maintain standards.

 

so what is wrong..... welll to my mind its interesting this thread focused mainly on NPTC nolantra one person mentioned them as the SSC, lantar award work to the standards laid out by the SSC. this is the important bit folks, the education, the spending the time to make sure the student can tie a bow line, can tell the difefrance between wite n red chestnut is able to do a change over in a structured orderd way that limits risk. education is the key a mix of vocational and achademic, formal and informal, all held to gether with soem good old experiensial learning.

 

all testing does be it the NPTC or the PDARB is test a sleection of the learing to a given level, it can never test the full range of any cylibus. this is a big problem as may cources train you to lest say pass your 30 not to have a full range of knowlege on a number of difefrant chains.

 

so that being said i support seperate testing to ensure a consistancy of learning ie NPTC, but i would be uch happier if we all stoped begging for the ticket a few days after the training, have them back for a couple of months befor you send them in for the test, there is nothing in the rule book to say training finish friday test on monday, if you as an employer whants conso;lidation ask your providor to sort it for you, they shouls lsten.

 

so we need good structured unrushed education with time to conso;idate learning, then a seperate test to sample knolege a little whiel after the training has finished ( not dissimilar to know) the candidate passes and then it is their chois what they do with that knowlege, som use it is a spark to grow and as a fondation to build a skillfull career, other revert to type go backwards and ignore and forget all that was taught and some just stay the same. IMHO ths is partly down to the individual and partly to the commitment of the company they are in.

 

peple need to be managed they need somone with experance, skkill, qualifications etc to cheak them anch chastise them whan they are not doing things right, but htat person also needs to make sure that all the tools needed to do a job are present n ot jsut the hardware but soft skills too, being able to listen, advise having the time to help and guide,

 

and as that ' new person ' develops the ability to record this development, by a person with all the skills needed to do that in a fair suppotive and balanced way. give the right fed back in a way that will help people identify where they need to develp without devotivating them.

 

A aprentaship, i was one of thse and a 1 year yts lad, an aprentaship is anything you wsh to make it, yep we have these government things going on, but if you whant to take a lass on and give her 2 years day relase a t college and mix in 30/31/38/39 link their pay to sucsess and monitor them through it and then as it draws near a close discuss how to move them on then hay presto you hav an aprenaship.

 

as for the internals of the system we currently have, i dispared the day NPTC lowered the specif ic requirments to be come an assessor, but applade some of the changes they made to recertification making it harder to just tread water now, at the end of the day we all whant to make a living, the nptc the test center the assessors we all have bills to pay and the costings i see are resnoble for cources, i woould love to charge moor so that we ccan continue to develop new stuff but know that the market wont support it at present, training providors/assessors are in an odd position where they are like the 3 or 4 th sub contrcatoe, just ask your self if you whent to price a job for a contractor who then put his bit on b4 he passed it on to the main contractor who put their bit on befor passing it to the main client how much would the bill be to the client for your £300 prune.

 

so what do i think needs to change well

learning moore enphasis on skills for life training

assessments well not a lot other than a gap between learning and testing, and also ou interpritation of them, 'they are a basic minimum standard' nothing moore

formalise how we monitor progression with a mix of self certified cpd, emp[lyer/supivisor cpd, and genuine obseved performace related assessment on real live jobs but trained experianced assessors.

a central way or recording this infrrmation

and a lifting of the face of arboriculture froam all bodies including governmaent so people realise the true cost of treee care, good proper tree care, id love to see it a regulated industry like corgy but not going to happen.

 

there you go 1 am and tiem for bed, as a closing note, im in a rare privalaged position were i travel and see many pople and companies doing really good tree work all over the country and our surrounding islands, all saying the same thing, we have the AA, TCIA, ISA as main players in the uk at the mo and also a numberof publications, all work together to try and push this job we love onwards so use them

 

there we go

 

cheers all

 

eek ill say the out come of the meeting till a night later this week

[toprotter]

Nptc quals are the ground level for entry in arb

they enable a very basic understanding of the industry and can also help determine wether or not working in/with trees is suitable for the candidate.

 

It is up to the employer/manager to oversee the climber,after draggin brush and loading chippers ( then they will cut properly 4 feeding chipper etc)

Firstly starting with pruning with silky/felcos on small garden trees so experience/confidence is gained.

 

A few days or even a ten wk course also does not and should not give the person the open door to start up business/or be sent out in this highly skilled occupation.

ALL THE GEAR NO IDEA

Cannon fodder! especially in areas nr colleges for the ruthless and loppers.

 

Maybe insurance companies are partly to be blamed ??

If you have the nptc you can be insured if they were more stringent with checks in work history/ experience etc then only the people with the interest and commitment to trees would be covered possibly reducing accident /premiums.??

 

At least 5 years of hard work and ongoing training you could call yourself an arb.

 

I am always trying to better myself and admit that I dont know it all infact every day I learn.

 

To cutt it short a mixture of quals /apprenticeship

should be the way to go.