tripping a hung tree

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Gotta say I'm quite interested in how others would go about getting that tree down.

 

Not being funny when I say that but Ive not had much experience in the above situation so would like to hear from others who have.

 

99% of the time Ive had to take down a windthrown tree its been over someones house/property so its been quietly and sneakily climb and cut without the tree or gravity realising or crane tastic.

 

Think its best to start a new thread though.

 

i'd call dadio,, let him do it

[ACUF]

This may well have been a good demonstration video to take care of this condition, but your straps were too small for the DBH. This is why you had the premature break, or "drop". Everyone can see that in the video. If you left a few more inches i think you could have made the third cut, camera on you, while in a good position, not exposed, and for god sakes, not expose the camera man.

 

Yes, the but came down, and the tree fell, good job. However, it was uncontrolled, and looked unanticipated, ..I wasn't very impressed.

 

In then end, you should have chosen a better example, or edit better. I feel like you haven't been very professional about responding to the feedback you've gotten from colleagues on this forum.

 

Why not do another demonstration, and call the shots that you will execute, and really execute them professionally, in a controlled manner. I feel like its people with this kind of temperament, this kind of ego in this industry, that make it unsafe for yourself and others.

 

 

 

ACUF

[Catweazle]

It looks to my untrained eye that if the butt hadn't sprung back so far or if the tree the trunk was hung on had pushed it back a fraction, the trunk would have taken the saw with it to the ground. In the video the saw is across the user and the kick-back zone narrowly misses the butt.

 

I'm just a hobbyist, but this would scare the hell out of me.

[dadio]

I can't see how you can think its simply black and white.

 

The knowledge and expeiance gained during a couple of years spent clearing windblown plantations back in the 90's leads me to disagree. It depends on size and species of not only the windblown tree, but also the tree it is blown into. It depends on the angle that the hung up tree is resting at, It depends if the tree is on the level, or leaning downhill or leaning uphill. It even depend, to a certain extent to the cc's of the saw and the length of bar. If you work on windblown trees day in day out on moorland, on steep valleys or waterlogged clayladen bogs, you get to do a few experiments, and you get to have a few expeiances. Do I think I am better than all those poors souls who came a cropper dealing with a windblown, simply because one hasn't got me yet? NO. I reckon that is arrogance of the highest order.

 

 

None of those things mentioned above make a bit of difference to the movement of the butt after seperation when using the cut shown on the video, with the ecxeptoin of grade, which could casue the piece to move downhill, only after it touches ground. Were you using this technique back in the 90s? NO of course not. So the effects you are talking about are the effects on a different cut, which I have experienced.

 

I started using just the vertical snap cut ,without the plunge in the 80s (if it matters), mostly taking trees off houses after hurrucanes. . Made that cut several hundred times over a 3 month period in 1989. I've shown it on video many times and it always works the same.

 

The angle of lean as well as pessure exerted from the push or pull of the root plate will effect the tension/compression areas in the wood, however the plunge and snap make those effects irrelevant. That is the beauty of this cut.

[dadio]

I have never read so much codswallop in my life. You are just contradicting yourself now, and making yourself look like a cocky newbie who thinks they have all the answers.

 

May i give you some friendly advice (although i imagine you will pay no heed to it as you have all the answers already)- stop digging the hole you are in deeper, before this turns into a silly gainsaying excercise?

 

 

Your name calling does nothing to further the conversation. Those that have nothing intelligent to say must resort to mud slinging. Its an old political trick. When you don't have the truth on your side, just slander the one who does and the gullible people will fall for it.

[dadio]

SO here's a question for you all...

What is the one situation where the butt will not drop straight down?

Anyone know?

 

When you have no real idea on variable, abstract and unpredictable tensions and compresions.

 

Yes, there is approved methods of dealing with hung trees. Which all British foresters are tought and examined on in a practical situation.

 

If I were dealing with this situation in an Arboricultural sense, i think it would be a fully rigged and safe sectional dismantle in manageable, safe, predictable pieces.

 

Stop trying to train on no budget with no idea.

 

 

The tensions and compressions have no effect on the movement of the butt after release. Is that sush a hard concept to grasp?

 

They will effect the bar getting pinched, which is again the benefit of the plunge cut, in that it prevents the bar from getting pinched no matter what hte tension and compression forces are doing.

 

That said : Tip vs butt heavy, the angle of lean, and the forces exerted by the push or pull of the root plate are three factors that effect tension/compression in the wood. Just becasue you haven't figured them out does not make them unpredictable. Its all physics, and as such undenaibly predictable.

[Tommy_B]

Your name calling does nothing to further the conversation. Those that have nothing intelligent to say must resort to mud slinging. Its an old political trick. When you don't have the truth on your side, just slander the one who does and the gullible people will fall for it.

 

You sure you have "truth" on your side? Or just your opinion?

[dadio]

although CS31 covers hung-up trees, Windblown trees are a different matter because whereas a hung tree has an almost totally severed stem prior to getting stuck, a windblown tree is couterbalanced by not only a soil covered rootplate (that can weigh tons), but also the spring exerted by the unseverd roots that are bent back on themselves.

 

A fresh trees rootplate will return to its place with a force, often far greater than just gravity.

QUOTE]

 

Its good t make a distinction between the two. The plunged vertical snap cut works equally well with either.

 

Sometimes a fresh root plate drops back in the hole... sometimes it doesn't. I never thought about the fact that they could be spring loaded by the remaining roots.. thanks for that!

[dadio]

This may well have been a good demonstration video to take care of this condition, but your straps were too small for the DBH. This is why you had the premature break, or "drop". Everyone can see that in the video. If you left a few more inches i think you could have made the third cut, camera on you, while in a good position, not exposed, and for god sakes, not expose the camera man.

 

Yes, the but came down, and the tree fell, good job. However, it was uncontrolled, and looked unanticipated, ..I wasn't very impressed.

 

In then end, you should have chosen a better example, or edit better. I feel like you haven't been very professional about responding to the feedback you've gotten from colleagues on this forum.

 

Why not do another demonstration, and call the shots that you will execute, and really execute them professionally, in a controlled manner. I feel like its people with this kind of temperament, this kind of ego in this industry, that make it unsafe for yourself and others.

 

This was not a premature break/drop, nor was it unanticipated. When the tree is still on the root plate like that, when it goes, it goes... and it goes fast. I had no intention of making a third cut on that tree, though I would have without hesitation if needed. The third cut is only needed when the top strap is unintentionally left too thick and the tree doesn't drop. Then you have to cut the top strap to release, which puts the faller a little close to the falling butt. Still far enough to be safe, just a little less comfortable.

 

The below video shows three large windblwon/hung trees I did in late June. the first two were tripped from the air, the first had concrete in the base to about 10', where the trunk was just hanging on by splinters. the second was tripped from the air becasue it was easier to do, while I was up there anyhow. The third shows a plunged vertical snap cut (at 6:50) where the top strap held and had to be released with a thrid cut up high. I did not mean to do that. I had hoped that the tree would drop on the second cut (on the bottom strap).

 

You could intentionally leave the top strap thick wnough to hold, then put a pull line/winch just above the cut and trigger the fall remotely if needed. I wouldn't do that as protection from the falling butt, becasue it is not needed. However that might become useful when dealing with hazards from falling overhead debris.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5bt6NJEVAI]YouTube - widowmakers 2010.mov[/ame]

[dadio]

It looks to my untrained eye that if the butt hadn't sprung back so far or if the tree the trunk was hung on had pushed it back a fraction, the trunk would have taken the saw with it to the ground. In the video the saw is across the user and the kick-back zone narrowly misses the butt.

 

I'm just a hobbyist, but this would scare the hell out of me.

 

I love this post!

Here a self admitted hobbyist is at least trying to make an effort to discuss the pros/cons, safety issues etc of the technique. How much better is that than a seasoned pro calling it "crap"?

 

There is no way that the saw will get snatched here, the falling piece is on one side only of the bar.

 

As far as the narrow miss on the kickback zone, that is quite correct.. this was done purposefully to keep as much clearance as possible from the falling butt. A saw is just an extension of the body for any experienced faller. He knows where the kickback zone of the bar is the way you know where the end of your hand is. So often times when an expert does something that looks close, the untrained eye thinks it looks dangerous, whereas it is really a sign of mastery.