tripping a hung tree

[Doug Blease]

I find this a little worrying......

Did nobody notice how slowly(not) the piece broke away at 4.55?

Many many many people have died using this exact technique.

 

There is NO control in leaving "straps". No control over speed or direction. I shudder to think that some people here on this forum who publicly represent the professional image of this industry, would even condone such terrible, lazy unsafe practice. Unless I am not seeing the sarcasm in the previous posts.

 

I agree with the sttement that it is a regular occurance in the realms of motor manual forestry. One which I got toasted for by the FC years ago. Shorlty before a death occurred on our site doing exactly the same thing.

 

If you were tasked with dealing with nasty windblown trees, whats the big rush? Why wouldnt there be the budgeted time to complete the job as safe as possible? No excuse for not using a winch of some description. Even if it was a rope and a vehicle.

[Mesterh]

I find this a little worrying......

Did nobody notice how slowly(not) the piece broke away at 4.55?

Many many many people have died using this exact technique.

 

There is NO control in leaving "straps". No control over speed or direction. I shudder to think that some people here on this forum who publicly represent the professional image of this industry, would even condone such terrible, lazy unsafe practice. Unless I am not seeing the sarcasm in the previous posts.

 

I agree with the sttement that it is a regular occurance in the realms of motor manual forestry. One which I got toasted for by the FC years ago. Shorlty before a death occurred on our site doing exactly the same thing.

 

If you were tasked with dealing with nasty windblown trees, whats the big rush? Why wouldnt there be the budgeted time to complete the job as safe as possible? No excuse for not using a winch of some description. Even if it was a rope and a vehicle.

 

 

OI yeah me. as per my post above yours.

 

Tbh I dont think it a sound and safe method.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Mesterh

[Doug Blease]

Yeah, sorry dude. It took me ages to believe what I was reading and write a coherent reply! Thank god I am not the only one....

 

...unless its a wind up?

[Highland Forestry]

YES do give it a try and report back..

 

This is fast safe and effective, preventing any chance of bar pinch, which can happen a lot of different ways on a leaning tree.. This is particlarly effective on BIG trees, where other methods become very tedious and time consuming.

 

One technicality... the term barber chair does not apply to any split trunk.. it specifically refers to the movement of the trunk , up and back, when a trunk splits and moves like a barber chair.

 

So intentionally leaving a strap of holding wood up top to peel off the trunk is not a barber chair. DId you see the insert of the large ash tree that split up the trunk well after the cutter had walked away. It doesn;t get any safer than that. A little tricky to adjust the amoutn of wood to leave up top though.. You can leave a bit more after the tree is off the stump, as both sides of the cut can fold..

 

Had some difficulty visualizing the method you described. Would like to see it..

Thanks.

 

 

 

Maybe i'll make you a video!

 

For what it's worth - I will try your method, but not on a big tree.

 

This technique of yours is an accident waiting to happen IMO.

 

You say that it is 'tricky' to adjust the ammount of wood to leave up top... that in itself is a recipie for disaster for anybody attempting to do this cut that hasn't got much experience..

 

Like I originally said, I would be resorting to traditional, proven, SAFE methods that don't leave anything to chance or guesswork. Especially with a larger stem.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Highland Forestry

[scotspine1]

The way trees hang up in storms is a lot different than when a faller misses the lay.

 

This is a sound and safe method, hope it helps. Used in many storm and hurricanes.

 

 

Thanks for posting the vid,

 

At 3.38 the example video footage you show is a very different scenario from the situation your dealing with in the main demonstration, in that clip both the upper and lower section want to fall to the ground with gravity.

 

In the main demonstration you failed to observe that the rootplate may would want to pull the lower section of the tree backwards/upwards. At 4.52 you can see the lower section jolt back rendering your snap cut technique useless as a way of slowing the break in a controlled manner.

[dadio]

Yes I know and I did mention that specifically. When the trunk is attached to the root, there is very little (if any) additional time to the release. THIS WAS stated in the video.

If you leave too much holding wood up top, the piece can be released by cutting the strap from the top down, which will again alllow the faller to stand to the side, out of harms way, though this requires reachin up quite a bit higher and thus put the faller a little closer to the drop zone.

 

I have used this technique 100+ times and there is only one rare situation where the trunk will move anything but straight down. I have found it perfectly safe stand slightly to the side and behind the cut. May look and feel scary, but it is safe.

 

If I need to control the top, I will set a lowering line in an overhead lowering point, tied off high on the work (when possible) and then allow the pendulum effect to pull the work off the roof (or standing tree) as it comes down in steps.

 

For those that believe this method is dangerous or has resulted in death/injury, please be more specific in where the actual danger lies. My mind is open here..

 

also I'd like to see a video of someone using a face and wedges on a 30"+ DBH widowmaker. I honestly have never seen it done, as I've been using vertical cuts of some kind since 1989. Winches are nice, but not always able to be used in arboriculture.

Edited September 26, 2010 by dadio

[John Barleycorn]

With the rootplate being unstable, what if the roots on your side had been in tension & the whole thing twisted towards you as it snapped ?

[scotspine1]

Yes I know and I did mention that specifically. When the trunk is attached to the root, there is very little (if any) additional time to the release. THIS WAS stated in the video.

 

watched the vid about 3 times now, at no point do you mention the root plate as a consideration when choosing the technique.

 

you do however tell us about 6 times throughout the video how the technique allows you to make an escape so that you are nowhere near the trunk as it drops, then after the abysmal final and frantic cut at 4.52 that nearly leaves you as a double leg amputee you state at 5.18 in classic historical revisionism style that you "didn't need to escape"

 

[ame=

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[/ame]

 

 

the video is full of inconsistencies, contradiction and above all the technique you showed did not allow you to make any form of escape whatsoever, in fact if anything it actually put you in more danger as you had to position your body nearer the trunk to make the final undercut.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited September 26, 2010 by scotspine1

[Doug Blease]

Yes I know and I did mention that specifically. When the trunk is attached to the root, there is very little (if any) additional time to the release. THIS WAS stated in the video.

If you leave too much holding wood up top, the piece can be released by cutting the strap from the top down, which will again alllow the faller to stand to the side, out of harms way, though this requires reachin up quite a bit higher and thus put the faller a little closer to the drop zone.

 

I have used this technique 100+ times and there is only one rare situation where the trunk will move anything but straight down. I have found it perfectly safe stand slightly to the side and behind the cut. May look and feel scary, but it is safe.

 

If I need to control the top, I will set a lowering line in an overhead lowering point, tied off high on the work (when possible) and then allow the pendulum effect to pull the work off the roof (or standing tree) as it comes down in steps.

 

For those that believe this method is dangerous or has resulted in death/injury, please be more specific in where the actual danger lies. My mind is open here..

 

also I'd like to see a video of someone using a face and wedges on a 30"+ DBH widowmaker. I honestly have never seen it done, as I've been using vertical cuts of some kind since 1989. Winches are nice, but not always able to be used in arboriculture.

 

OMG, this gets more and more ridiculous every time you talk about it. You are making excuses for variable situations. Anyone with enough experience of felling trees within a crop will tell you that, yes people do do it, but nobody ever recommends this technique. Therefore it really is an "at you own risk" technique.

 

I reckon you might be the first to advertise it as a proven, safe method on an international video forum.

 

Whats the score about "controlling the top" with an over head lowering line? Why not do it propoerly with a lateral winch line, using approved cuts at the base of the tree? Surely that is quicker? Doesnt involve climbing and overhead rigging? And means you can control the pull on the stem from a remote position?

 

Where the risk of death lies? Well how is this for a start:

- Your section is falling from shoulder height or above in a direction and speed which you have little control.

- In the video and in every practical situation you have no time to exit the felling area using an esvcape route.

- All timber species will split and react differently under realistically unknown tensions and compressions. Even at the preliminary boring cut, not to mention the step cut underneath.

- Am I correct in thinking that your windblown tree is actually on an uphill incline (could be wrong) encouraging any piece to use gravity to come back towards the operator.

- The tree which is causing the hang has a massive effect on what happens to the hung stem. This is infinately variable.

 

Endless viable risks.

Sorry mate, but by making a public video you are opening yourself to real criticism. The reality is that there is a lot of people who are willing to go out and try this technique with renewed confidence and curiosity. Genuinely, you could have someones death on your conscience.

[18 stoner]

Dadio, I have said it before, and will again.

 

You have no idea how dangerous you really are.