Anyone still like Labour?

[GarethM]

33 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Read the words I read and not the words in your head. It helps.

I did read the words and came to the conclusion it was more guff, or as you like to say but look he's bad but they were worse.

 

All your trying to say is legal migration might be down due to conservatives policy and labour scaring away all those rich types that like to live/work and spend I'll gotten gains here.

 

Your analysis failed abysmally on those RNLI boaty drs & engineers numbers which funnily have skyrocketed since two tier came into power. I believe they're even giving even bigger discounts now they know they'll stay forever.

 

Or ask yourself a simpler question, are you more bothered about those legal ones, you know vetted and checked.

 

Or those that flood over on a daily basis?.

 

But we will never get a clear answer will we as you don't believe in borders/checks or deportation.

Edited yesterday at 12:54 by GarethM

[Steven P]

Clear answer. A lot of the UKs problems can be directed at mass immigration - the legal ones who 'come to steal our jobs', they were the ones demonised for example in the Brexit debate (taking control of our borders... against the Europeans... which is the demographic Brexit was always going to affect... who as a group arrived and worked here legally), which is what swung the Brexit debate for a lot of people, the shortage of affordable houses for our youngsters and eating up the green fields to provide huge 100 bedroom, 150 bathroom houses for the old, energy supplies for an ever growing population, training courses for the young and so on, why bother when we can import ready trained employees... this mass immigration was a Tory experiment and failed.

 

So yes, mass immigration is a bigger problem than you think, and 'vetted and checked'.. you mean they tick a box on a form "have you ever murdered someone", yup we'll believe you, and of course since Brexit the UK no longer has access to the EU criminal records database we cannot actually check whether a EU immigrant is telling the truth! Vetted and checked? Yup.

Edited yesterday at 13:49 by Steven P

[Johnsond]

3 minutes ago, Steven P said:

this mass immigration was a Tory experiment and failed.

Can you tell us who implemented the free movement policy SP ??

[Johnsond]

4 minutes ago, Steven P said:

since Brexit the UK no longer has access to the EU criminal records database we cannot actually check whether a EU immigrant is telling the truth! Vetted and checked?

EU petty vindictive behaviour 🤷‍♂️

[GarethM]

6 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

EU petty vindictive behaviour 🤷‍♂️

And we still stupidly provide our incompetent EU masters with our security services.

 

F them comes to mind.

 

And vetted and checked actually means, having documents. You know maybe a passport instead of throwing it in the channel from your dinghy.

Edited yesterday at 13:58 by GarethM

[GarethM]

So if we don't have access to this mythical database, what happens if we go to say the USA ?.

 

They aren't just checking you're photo are they!

[Steven P]

1 hour ago, GarethM said:

And vetted and checked actually means, having documents. You know maybe a passport instead of throwing it in the channel from your dinghy.

 

Of course, silly me.

 

A passport is of course proof that you are not a criminal. Lack of a passport means you are a criminal. I suppose you could couple that with whether you pray to Allah, God, Ganesha or Quetzacoatl when you land to find the severity of your crime and determine your sentence.

 

All these years I've been alive, seeing court cases, when all the judge needs to do is ask for a passport, innocent or guilty. Think you have stumbled across a massive way to save a bit of money in the UK.

[GarethM]

10 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

Of course, silly me.

 

A passport is of course proof that you are not a criminal. Lack of a passport means you are a criminal. I suppose you could couple that with whether you pray to Allah, God, Ganesha or Quetzacoatl when you land to find the severity of your crime and determine your sentence.

 

All these years I've been alive, seeing court cases, when all the judge needs to do is ask for a passport, innocent or guilty. Think you have stumbled across a massive way to save a bit of money in the UK.

Didn't say good or bad or religion did I, I just want proof of identity.

 

"Read the words I read and not the words in your head. It helps."

 

A passport is atleast an official document from wherever you're from, using one that's a fake is generally a imprisonment offense is it not?.

 

Surely someone working in the civil services/government should atleast know the basics for proving who you are.

 

We can't all go to the dole office demanding a house by just saying I'm Spartacus!.

[Steven P]

And that is my point, how will a proof of identity confirm that those coming here are not criminals - which is the essence of what you are saying isn't it? 

 

 

 

For the sake of arguments, an Afghani fleeing the chaos in Afghanistan 4 years ago - perhaps they were helping a western government do stuff but weren't given any protection afterwards - runs away so they are not killed. Are you suggesting that they should have held tight, gone online, applied for a passport, waited for it to be processed, all the while not opening the door to the polite Talliban chapping at their door, then carefully packs everything up, makes a thousand mile journey and rocks up at the shores of the UK, passport intact, asking for asylum - in you go, ID is good. Many do not have that privilege, it is go now or be killed. No passport. And on the flip side, someone like Epstein, Al-Fayad, or Tate could have flown in with their private jets, passport in hand and yes, on you go sir, I see you have papers.

 

Perhaps my example here is taking the 2 extremes but might be needed for understanding that a passport or lack off is not an indication of criminality or not

[GarethM]

4 minutes ago, Steven P said:

And that is my point, how will a proof of identity confirm that those coming here are not criminals - which is the essence of what you are saying isn't it? 

 

 

 

For the sake of arguments, an Afghani fleeing the chaos in Afghanistan 4 years ago - perhaps they were helping a western government do stuff but weren't given any protection afterwards - runs away so they are not killed. Are you suggesting that they should have held tight, gone online, applied for a passport, waited for it to be processed, all the while not opening the door to the polite Talliban chapping at their door, then carefully packs everything up, makes a thousand mile journey and rocks up at the shores of the UK, passport intact, asking for asylum - in you go, ID is good. Many do not have that privilege, it is go now or be killed. No passport. And on the flip side, someone like Epstein, Al-Fayad, or Tate could have flown in with their private jets, passport in hand and yes, on you go sir, I see you have papers.

 

Perhaps my example here is taking the 2 extremes but might be needed for understanding that a passport or lack off is not an indication of criminality or not

Well riddle me this, why do they chuck all their documents in the sea if they're soooooo squeaky clean!.

 

And for the few interpreters, we have all ID details including fingerprints on file.

 

Same with the EU, they've got through half a dozen countries they are known and usually carried documents until they reach our shores are chuck everything including phones away because you can't really go anywhere without ID.

 

Hardly helping your EU argument is it!.

We are also part of 5 eyes, because unlike the EU we are very good at intelligence gathering.