Bar size for training

[5thelement]

8 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

You misunderstand me. I'm not claiming its a good idea, just stating that bar length is not the only metric you should be looking for.

 

There's no reason within PUWER to not run a short bar on a large powerhead. The manufacturer may give ideal recommendations for bar size but that's all they are. 

One of the first questions in the Assessment Schedule requires the candidate to explain the reason for maintaining the saw to the manufacturers recommendations.

So the manufacturers minimum recommended bar length on a 500i is 20”, so you put on a 15” bar and run an 8 pin sprocket, you have given it to your new novice to train with, they can’t control the saw and get injured, you really think that your insurance is going to agree with the HSE that the saw is ‘Fit for purpose’ under Puwer?

No one has turned up for basic training with me in the last 10 years with anything bigger than a 60cc saw.
It would seem that generally most people starting off with basic training aren’t dumbo’s who need an explanation why a 90cc with a 13” bar on it might not be appropriate for them, it must be pretty obvious to everyone, so it just never happens.

[AHPP]

What are we arguing about?

[5thelement]

44 minutes ago, AHPP said:

What are we arguing about?

Not arguing.  
The only chainsaw guidance for training/assessing is safety features/guidebar length/ fit for purpose, that’s what we are working with. 
Joe has another metric he thinks  we should be looking for, maybe he will inform us of what it is then we can keep our eyes peeled.

[doobin]

I wouldn't feel comfortable letting the average NT volunteer CS30 candidate loose on anything more than an MS181, even after training.

 

Mind you, my tickets are non existant so what do I know? Just off to fit an 18" to the 881!😂

[Joe Newton]

23 hours ago, 5thelement said:

Not arguing.  
The only chainsaw guidance for training/assessing is safety features/guidebar length/ fit for purpose, that’s what we are working with. 
Joe has another metric he thinks  we should be looking for, maybe he will inform us of what it is then we can keep our eyes peeled.

Don't be a smart arse. My point was that bar length is not the only criteria. You've already stated that you'll flout the regs when it makes sense to you.

 

 

[5thelement]

Just now, Joe Newton said:

Don't be a smart arse. My point was that bar length is not the only criteria. You've already stated that you'll flout the regs when it makes sense to you.

 

 

If you mean I have the discretion to accept a 16” light type bar (which has a 15” cutting maximum if the dogs are present) and is now standard on most stock MS261, in an assessment, yes I do, hardly flouting any regs now is it. 
Apart from bar length, what is the other criteria you keep banging on about?

[Suffolk Dave]

Under puwer/ ppe, you chainsaw trousers have speed rating, this may be your problem with bigger saws on small bars your ppe rating is not to safe user standard protection , if a problem occurs HSE would not be impressed 

[5thelement]

6 minutes ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Under puwer/ ppe, you chainsaw trousers have speed rating, this may be your problem with bigger saws on small bars your ppe rating is not to safe user standard protection , if a problem occurs HSE would not be impressed 

I have my doubts wether many chainsaw trousers, no matter what the rating, would stop a full chat 500i on an 8 pin sprocket, running a 15” bar before an injury occurs, combine that with the poor balance and potential for ridiculous kickback and you have a recipe for problems, hence I wouldn’t be happy accepting a saw set up like that on a basic felling course/assessment on grounds of safety.

 

[hedge mong]

A faster saw is a safer saw.

[Brushcutter]

On 17/08/2023 at 21:14, Albion435 said:

The training providers specify a max bar size of 15 inches. 

Why is this? 

I get that the max tree size must be specified but don't understand the restriction on bar size. 

Arguably a larger bar makes it safer and is better on your posture, less bending etc. 

 

 

Most trees in the UK can be done with a 15" bar.  When training beginners and people who know a lot less than they think they struggle to get round a 15" bar in a timely manor achieving an accurate sharpen.  There is also a lot to cover on a chainsaw course so spending hours sharpening huge chains on knackered saws the boss sent for some professional maintenance is really a waste of time.