Arb or not to arb?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

There was one somewhere and iirc the outcome was if an LA specified that AA approval was required to tender then you can get it turned around and give them a slapping at the very least:001_smile:

 

I'm gonna miss summat, sumwhere soon...if so PLEASE rattle my cage personally, i.e PM me (gud eh, I'm gettin the lingo?...maybe not!)

 

You might be right. I have heard there's some piece of European legislation which may deem it 'anti-competitive', and therby open to legal challenge, if a LA (in particular I guess, being an 'arm' of central government) states a contractor must be a member of XXX or must be acreditted by XXX when it's not a legal requirement so to be in order to be able to trade.

 

That said many do insist upon, for instance, CHAS or 'exor' (particularly at LA level) for H&S compliance but maybe that's different being H&S based...dunno?!

 

A county council I am aware of have put together a 'Framework Agreement for Tree Surgery Services' where CHAS Accreditation is required ('to open the door') and then 'AAAC or equivalent' is required ('to step inside'). Apparently the 'or equivalent' is the contractor presenting themselves for assessment by the CC against industry benchmarks (guess what, largely the AAAC standards). The CC have stated their hope that before contract renewal, in 3 years time, all contractors who make their list will become AAAC (apparently a high percentage already are and hence will not need to go through the additional hoops.)

 

The HSE in published guidance on selecting competent contractors refer to certain criteria to consider, including:

- Is the contractor a member of an industry trade organsiation?

- Does the contractor have any independent assessment of their competence?

 

Hence the value of an industry based accreditation does carry, at least, some recognition in certain sectors.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

No not at all. You are right it is a responsibility of a firm to promot themselfes & the quality of wrk they push out. Having said this if it was the sole responsibiity of said co's then this comes back to what & why do we need a body like the AA if we were all so good at self promotion? I feel the AA have a roll to forfill in our industury which runs along side the HSE & best wrk practice, the question is what else do they do for us. Alot of points have been partly awnsewerd in past posts from an AA man at much lenghth:001_tongue: 'thanks Paul'

Businesse is businesse & the more we have on the same side is surly a better thing even if I do promote the next best arb app contractor whos price may be a little lower than mine. It's all about the trees right:001_smile:

 

Danavan, excellent someone who appreciates my '...at much length' postings, now I just need to get to '...at great length', I'll try my best.

 

Jokin apart, what esle do you want us to do for you? (realistically and please remember 'forum etiquette & decorum'!) OR, put it another way, what issues can we help with that are affecting you?

 

I can 'bleat on' about other stuff the AA does and list the plethora of different groups and bodies we represent on but that may mean very little to you and/or hold little value if it doesn't affect your day-to-day operations.

 

I acknowledge to date we haven't been as active or vociferous as other industry bodies perhaps but the reality is we're 'small fry' by comparison. Nevertheless we do have some 'big hitters' so let me know.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

PS Apologies for this posting being so brief!

[gibbon]

I'm gonna miss summat, sumwhere soon...if so PLEASE rattle my cage personally, i.e PM me (gud eh, I'm gettin the lingo?...maybe not!)

 

You might be right. I have heard there's some piece of European legislation which may deem it 'anti-competitive', and therby open to legal challenge, if a LA (in particular I guess, being an 'arm' of central government) states a contractor must be a member of XXX or must be acreditted by XXX when it's not a legal requirement so to be in order to be able to trade.

 

That said many do insist upon, for instance, CHAS or 'exor' (particularly at LA level) for H&S compliance but maybe that's different being H&S based...dunno?!

 

A county council I am aware of have put together a 'Framework Agreement for Tree Surgery Services' where CHAS Accreditation is required ('to open the door') and then 'AAAC or equivalent' is required ('to step inside'). Apparently the 'or equivalent' is the contractor presenting themselves for assessment by the CC against industry benchmarks (guess what, largely the AAAC standards). The CC have stated their hope that before contract renewal, in 3 years time, all contractors who make their list will become AAAC (apparently a high percentage already are and hence will not need to go through the additional hoops.)

 

The HSE in published guidance on selecting competent contractors refer to certain criteria to consider, including:

- Is the contractor a member of an industry trade organsiation?

- Does the contractor have any independent assessment of their competence?

 

Hence the value of an industry based accreditation does carry, at least, some recognition in certain sectors.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

Paul, is that DCC? If so the jist I got from the meeting was that they wanted CHAS or equilalent and were pretty much disregarding AAAC's. This was a bit of a shock as they requested all AAAC's get CHAS or they would be unable to tender. Trust Mark was seen as a CHAS equivalent but AAAC not. It was a bit of a shock and made me question whether DCC were supporting the AA scheme these days. I saw the whole CHAS thing as a way for the council to get a wider range of contractors on their list so they could screw us all down on price.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Paul, is that DCC? If so the jist I got from the meeting was that they wanted CHAS or equilalent and were pretty much disregarding AAAC's. This was a bit of a shock as they requested all AAAC's get CHAS or they would be unable to tender. Trust Mark was seen as a CHAS equivalent but AAAC not. It was a bit of a shock and made me question whether DCC were supporting the AA scheme these days. I saw the whole CHAS thing as a way for the council to get a wider range of contractors on their list so they could screw us all down on price.

 

Yup, it was/is DCC.

 

There certainly seemed to be some confusion at the time of 'that' meeting over what the requirements were and hence I spoke with them directly to clarify the situation and what I've posted above is what I understand to be the case.

 

They've alos invited me to speak to their contractors, once appointed (prob somtime in April), about AAAC status, what's involved and how it combines with CHAS as this seems to tick all their boxes.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[gibbon]

Yup, it was/is DCC.

 

There certainly seemed to be some confusion at the time of 'that' meeting over what the requirements were and hence I spoke with them directly to clarify the situation and what I've posted above is what I understand to be the case.

 

They've alos invited me to speak to their contractors, once appointed (prob somtime in April), about AAAC status, what's involved and how it combines with CHAS as this seems to tick all their boxes.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

But they will be allowing the CHAS contractors to enter the frame work (which is entirely focused on cost) and there is no requirement to be an AAAC. This as I see it puts those of us you are AAAC at a distinct disadvantage as we will be competing entitely on cost with other contractors who do not incur all the other costs involved in being an AAAC. DCC want cheap work, thats that. Its is hard to see the financial benifits of being arb approved when county councils no longer request it (and theres no shortage of AAAC's in Devon to obtain tenders from). Its hard to see where the AA have sucessfully promoted the scheme recently.

[skyhuck]

But they will be allowing the CHAS contractors to enter the frame work (which is entirely focused on cost) and there is no requirement to be an AAAC. This as I see it puts those of us you are AAAC at a distinct disadvantage as we will be competing entitely on cost with other contractors who do not incur all the other costs involved in being an AAAC. DCC want cheap work, thats that. Its is hard to see the financial benifits of being arb approved when county councils no longer request it (and theres no shortage of AAAC's in Devon to obtain tenders from). Its hard to see where the AA have sucessfully promoted the scheme recently.

 

CC are spending taxpayers money and have a duty to get best value.

 

Just because a firm does not chose to go AAAC does not mean there work is of a lower standard.

[gibbon]

CC are spending taxpayers money and have a duty to get best value.

 

Just because a firm does not chose to go AAAC does not mean there work is of a lower standard.

 

I didnt say that their work was a lower standad.

[skyhuck]

I didnt say that their work was a lower standad.

 

So the CC are doing the right thing.

[gibbon]

So the CC are doing the right thing.

 

Havent you got some cs units to revise for?

[skyhuck]

Havent you got some cs units to revise for?

 

Nope

 

Did mine years ago