Oak felling seasoning and milling advice?

[Stihl_Ben_UK]

In my garden I have a reasonably large and straight English Oak to fell in February.

 

I'd like to use the wood from it for something other than firewood, hopefully ultimately mill it with a chainsaw mill or hire in someone with a bandsaw mill.

 

So far I understand to take care from shocking the wood during felling and to cushion it on brash or similar. I've also heard its worth leaving the wood to rest / relax for a reasonable period before milling (tree is and has always grown on a lean with weight to one side).

 

I've heard mixed answers regarding to milling. Some say mill immediately on felling, some say season first. Diameter is around 36" on the trunk, possibly a bit more. 

 

In an ideal world I may consider using it for cladding, in that event what's the thinnest sensible thickness that Oak can be milled to without causing issues? 

 

Any advice on this welcome, I just dont want to spoil what could be useful timber. 

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Stihl_Ben_UK
photos

[Sutton]

We cut some featheredged to cover external insulation as lapping. It was well rested prior to milling and blue-stained in winter so we treated it. Good luck with those knots.

[Dan Maynard]

Rough rule of thumb is 1 year per inch board thickness, so you'll have to be a patient man to season a 36" stem before sawing. I reckon you'll then find it so much harder than green you wish you'd cut it earlier.

 

I don't know about leaving it to rest, can't see it's going to make that much difference as not much will happen till it's sawn and boards start drying. I would guess don't saw it too thin at first then resaw cladding if that's what you want to do. Probably need to see the inside before you decide really.

[Macpherson]

Hi, you should check out the ' todays milling ' thread there's just about everything you need to know on there.

 

For my tuppence worth I'd say mill it asap and stack it to season or it will be very hard.. as said a year an inch plus a year so 3 years for a 2" board, paint the ends to prevent cracking and weigh down or band the stacks.

 

Not sure that oak's ideal for cladding but if it were to be used for this purpose I don't see why it couldn't be put up green in a similar fashion to the way Larch is used... but I could be wrong there, good luck👍

[Dan Maynard]

That's a good point, you can get oak featheredge fencing which is put up green.

[openspaceman]

32 minutes ago, Dan Maynard said:

That's a good point, you can get oak featheredge fencing which is put up green.

In the day oak fencing pales were cleft and used green, because they were quarter faces the differential shrinkage was not a problem and because they were cleft there were no knots to distort on drying.

[ucoulddoit]

The pics reminded me of an oak tree offered by a tree surgeon from whom I’d previously bought good quality logs. The promise of a ‘nice large oak tree’ persuaded me to drive 40 miles each way to inspect it, but I was pretty disappointed and didn’t follow it up! Having said that, if it had been in my own garden or a neighbour’s, I’d have happily milled it for my own use on the basis there might be some good stuff and also a fair amount that ended up as firewood. So I hope you’re able to get something from it.

 

This isn’t advice from a ‘pro’, but as they might reject the tree outright, and there hasn’t been a flurry of advice, an occasional miller’s approach might be what you’re looking for? So here goes.

 

Hard to see from the photos, but I presume most of what can be seen and described as leaning, is actually the second length? What length is the 3 foot diameter section and is it the main butt below the second lengths?  Assuming the main butt is a usable length, I’d start by cross cutting at the main junctions, bends, etc. to have shorter straighter lengths. Looks like several branches have been cut off at some point and based on my (limited) experience, this usually means at least localized rot inside, sometimes quite extensive. Were the branches mainly on one side? If so, one side may be clearer, with less knots and rot?  But as its leaning, there is probably reaction wood which might cause more distortion during drying and in use, so possibly not suitable for fine furniture making. But sounds like you're looking at other uses?

 

What type of cladding are you aiming for? Waney edged or straight planks? Attached photoes which were posted a few years ago are for straight larch cladding planks. I chainsaw milled several larch trees in a wood into 100mm thick slabs which could then be manhandled and taken to a sawmill for secondary milling into 20mm planks. Worked a treat!

 

 

 

 

That approach would let you see if the timber is actually worth the secondary milling into thin planks. If after chainsaw milling it into slabs it doesn’t look that good, i.e. rot, knots, etc. at least the thick slabs might have a use as sleepers, posts or even split for firewood! Haven’t got my tables to hand but from memory 20mm oak would need stickers at about a foot spacing to minimize distortion if you were going to dry it before use.

 

Would be good to see some photos of how this turns out.

 

Andrew

Edited December 1, 2022 by ucoulddoit

[Stihl_Ben_UK]

Cheers gents, especially Andrew, very informative. I don't know a huge amount about the history of the tree but agree it does appear some laterals have been removed in years gone by. 

From the advice above, and seeing as I already have a chainsaw mill and due to work commitments, I'm thinking possibly the following approach to it:

1) Fell tree carefully in Feb, cutting the straight bits into max 12ft lengths (so I can transport it later)

2) Chainsaw mill it in April into 10"x 10" and 8"x8" posts for gate posts which I'll need a few of anyway. 

3) Transport fairer pieces to a mill for band sawing to cladding thickness , retain worse pieces for gate posts etc

 

I've still got a few queries:

>should I do the initial chainsaw milling immediately in Feb or leave it settle / relax whatever first? I'm keen for the latter for the sake of my neighbours / noise, i.e. give them a bit of a break, but understand its better to mill Oak in wet/ cold conditions?

>should I immediately bandsaw mill the better pieces that will be cladding or will a few months / year of initial drying be ok?

>Any recommendations for what to use to seal cut ends?

> for cladding would 20mm be the advisable thinnest to go for? Is feather edge worthwhile with Oak or too prone to warping? Should Oak cladding be treated? I'm using it for outbuildings and a large steel framed gate.

>Can sapwood and bark be used for Oak cladding? I've certainly read a few posts warning of bugs in Oak bark..? Should I remove only bark or bark and sapwood?

>Should I treat Oak gate posts (they will installed green sometime in June?) If so what should I treat them with before I plant them?

 

Thanks to everyone for your help on this!

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Stihl_Ben_UK
incomplete post

[Macpherson]

28 minutes ago, Stihl_Ben_UK said:

Cheers gents, especially Andrew, very informative. I don't know a huge amount about the history of the tree but agree it does appear some laterals have been removed in years gone by. 

From the advice above, and seeing as I already have a chainsaw mill and due to work commitments, I'm thinking possibly the following approach to it:

1) Fell tree carefully in Feb, cutting the straight bits into max 12ft lengths (so I can transport it later)

2) Chainsaw mill it in April into 10"x 10" and 8"x8" posts for gate posts which I'll need a few of anyway. 

3) Transport fairer pieces to a mill for band sawing to cladding thickness , retain worse pieces for gate posts etc

 

I've still got a few queries:

>should I do the initial chainsaw milling immediately in Feb or leave it settle / relax whatever first? I'm keen for the latter for the sake of my neighbours / noise, i.e. give them a bit of a break, but understand its better to mill Oak in wet/ cold conditions?

>should I immediately bandsaw mill the better pieces that will be cladding or will a few months / year of initial drying be ok?

>Any recommendations for what to use to seal cut ends?

> for cladding would 20mm be the advisable thinnest to go for? Is feather edge worthwhile with Oak or too prone to warping? Should Oak cladding be treated? I'm using it for outbuildings and a large steel framed gate.

>Can sapwood and bark be used for Oak cladding? I've certainly read a few posts warning of bugs in Oak bark..? Should I remove only bark or bark and sapwood?

>Should I treat Oak gate posts (they will installed green sometime in June?) If so what should I treat them with before I plant them?

 

Thanks to everyone for your help on this!

 

 

Hi, that sounds like a good plan, it'll still be green in April I'd think,

 

I paint the ends with SBR a waterproof pva.

If you're worried about bugs or fungal staining, paint the planks with a solution of Borax, Ikg mixes well into 5 gallons of hot water.

And I'd probably soak the posts in real creosote.

 

Cheers

 

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Edited December 2, 2022 by Macpherson

[ucoulddoit]

Just a few comments. I’d remove all the sapwood for external use, could be 2 inches or more, so that will quite significantly reduce the usable quantity of timber.

 

I also seal the ends with PVA, but working outside, it’s almost inevitable that some dirt and grit will get stuck to the end. Having once quickly blunted /chipped a set of planer blades while machining some milled planks with sealed ends, I now cut off the ends before using them. Quite a costly and inconvenient error to make!
 

The cladding planks I cut were for vertical cladding, hence the rectangular section, 20 x 100. No experience of feather edge boards, but I see online there is a range of widths and thicknesses available. Smallest was 150 by 16 tapering to 6. Largest we’re 200 by max 25. Not sure what factors to consider when selecting the cross section, but let us know if you find advice online. I wonder if they should be fitted with the heart side outside so as they dry and cup, they’ll not create a gap? Or maybe it should be the other way round or maybe doesn’t matter?

 

I’d plan the milling cuts to suit the pith position, so that it can be excluded. I’d typically have sawcuts 2 inches above and below the pith, then split that plank along the pith. Or to reduce drying defects further, I’d remove 3 or 4 inches from the middle of that plank. Might seem wasteful, but that part if often poor quality and has shakes. For the sizes your proposing, you could have a much thicker slab through the pith which might be well off centre due to the tree leaning. Throughout it’s life?

Re timing of milling, waiting a year or more shouldn’t matter, and milling in the autumn so that initial drying is over the winter is worth considering if your timescale allows that.

 

Andrew

Edited December 3, 2022 by ucoulddoit
Timing of milling