The financial case for electric vehicles

[Big J]

Just now, topchippyles said:

We are all used to it to now jonathan full your boots son 🤭

 

Touché! 😁

 

I just get lost in the numbers sometimes. I hate inconsistency without explanation? Why does the same product/service cost very different amounts in different places without obvious cause?

 

Anyway, I don't think any of us can deny that Arbtalk is basically a care group for socially dysfunctional misfits, of which I proudly count myself as one

[Baldbloke]

16 hours ago, Big J said:

There was an interesting programme on Radio 4 this week called 'Sliced bread' (as in the best thing since...) where they explore products/services that are supposed to be all that. 

 

Anyway, it was electric vehicles this week. Whether you agree with the environmental credentials or not, the one thing that came through was that they are fundamentally cheaper to own and run unless you do very low mileage. 

 

So that got my cogs turning, costing our vehicle options for us when we relocate in July. Without boring you all with the details (though I can, on request ), I did the calculations on us being a two vehicle household, comparing our current vehicles (2007 VW transporter, and anticipated 2009 2l TDI A6 estate) with a couple of MG ZS EVs on a 3 year lease. Both scenarios would involve me charging mileage to my business for commercial use of private vehicles.

 

In short, the total cost for 36k miles in the diesel vehicles including servicing and repair, depreciation and fuel and insurance is £14,800. The total cost of leasing the electric vehicles for the same distance is £9200. 

 

This assumes current diesel prices (a touch higher than the UK at £1.95/l) and current electricity prices (much lower than the UK, with a 3 year fixed rate about £0.14/kwh). 

 

Now I appreciate that I'm working it out for my personal situation and that with electricity and electric vehicles being cheaper in Sweden, there is a degree of bias, but the cost saving is really quite large, especially considering that there is £10k tied up in the diesel vehicles which would be liberated if they were sold. 

 

Another consideration is that when we install solar (which is our intention), the electricity effectively becomes free for most of the year. And the £10k liberated from the sale of the diesel vehicles pays for 60% of the 12kw solar system with battery backup and car chargers. Generating our own electricity would bring the annual cost of running the EVs down to £7700, which is a cost saving of £7100 over diesel.

 

I suppose the reason for this post is to perhaps share my opinion that I think that the financial case is now very strongly made for electric vehicles, especially if you can charge from your own generated electricity. This was the conclusion of the Radio 4 programme too.

Trouble is we'd often need two cars as we both work, and even with our 25 Kw wind turbine generation providing free charging I cannot yet see the sums adding up in the UK. And that's with the present fuel prices.

 

Over 3 years, all approximate. Old Diesel Tiguans.

36,000 miles at 40/mpg = 900 imperial gallons = 4091 litres @ £1.75 = £7159.25 X 2 cars = £14318

Depreciation on 2 VW Tiguans 2012 & 2015 = Actually worth more than when they were bought, but say minus £3000. 

Maintenance X6 self services including X1 timing belt/water pump X 2 sets of discs and pads £500

Set of tyres £400 X2 = £800.

Road tax X6@ £160 = £960

£19,578 to run 2 cars for 3 years.

 

MG Motor UK Zs Electric Hatchback115kW SE EV Long Range 73kWh 5 Doors Auto

For 3 year lease on 12,000 miles a year, each car would cost £342/month X 36 = £12312 X2 = £ 24,624 + X2 initial payments of £3077. £24624 + £6154 = £30778. 

 

I didn't include insurance although that too is a negative as leccy cars cost more to insure.

 

Looks like getting on for double the cost as well as the hassle of looking for chargers and delays on longer trips. You'd also have no residual car values by plumping for the electric vehicles. 

So even though we are lucky enough to have a cheap or free source of electric I personally can't justify the jump and inconvenience of electric cars, and by the time I could they'll probably have changed the tax incentives.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Baldbloke

[benedmonds]

19 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

So cost per mile over three years on 12k a year is £0.52 in the UK and £0.30 in Sweden.

Does that include, insurance, service and consumable costs? It does illustrate that the 45p a mile HMRC says you can pay as milage won't cover it.

[Big J]

3 minutes ago, Baldbloke said:

Trouble is we'd often need two cars as we both work, and even with our 25 Kw wind turbine generation providing free charging I cannot yet see the sums adding up in the UK. And that's with the present fuel prices.

 

Over 3 years, all approximate. Old Diesel Tiguans.

36,000 miles at 40/mpg = 900 imperial gallons = 4091 litres @ £1.75 = £7159.25 X 2 cars = £14318

Depreciation on 2 VW Tiguans 2012 & 2015 = Actually worth more than when they were bought, but say minus £3000. 

Maintenance X6 self services including X1 timing belt/water pump X 2 sets of discs and pads £500

Set of tyres £400 X2 = £800.

Road tax X6@ £160 = £960

£19,578 to run 2 cars for 3 years.

 

MG Motor UK Zs Electric Hatchback115kW SE EV Long Range 73kWh 5 Doors Auto

For 3 year lease on 12,000 miles a year, each car would cost £342/month X 36 = £12312 X2 = £ 24,624 + X2 initial payments of £3077. £24624 + £6154 = £30778. 

 

Looks like getting on for double the cost as well as the hassle of looking for chargers and delays on longer trips. You'd also have no residual car values by plumping for the electric vehicles. 

So even though we are lucky enough to have a cheap or free source of electric I personally can't justify the jump and inconvenience of electric cars, and by the time I could they'll probably have changed the tax incentives.

 

 

Oooh, I like the detail and numbers

 

I reckon that a lot of the economy of EVs is what actual mileage you do. Here in Devon at the moment, we do about 45-50k between three vehicles a year. We'll reduce that a fair bit in Sweden as the school run reduces from 11 miles each way to 550m. But we'll still end up doing 36k I reckon. Once you're up to those sorts of mileages, the unit cost of diesel starts to look pretty brutal versus electricity, even at the UK's silly kwh prices.

 

I also have no interest whatsoever in maintaining my own vehicles. I can just about tolerate working on forestry machines, but everything is too cramped and too tight together on cars and me being the size I am, my hands just don't fit into any nooks or crannies. I wish I did have an interest in it, but I'd rather spend an extra couple of hours forwarding and pay someone else to do it. 

 

Something else to consider is that ICE car tax is still very cheap here versus the EU average (especially northern Europe). If the government starts to up that, the balance starts to shift a little.

[topchippyles]

9 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Touché! 😁

 

I just get lost in the numbers sometimes. I hate inconsistency without explanation? Why does the same product/service cost very different amounts in different places without obvious cause?

 

Anyway, I don't think any of us can deny that Arbtalk is basically a care group for socially dysfunctional misfits, of which I proudly count myself as one

Yes you and i certainly fit the dysfunctional misfits class 😁 God help if you did the sums on what i spend per gallon on beer but i am very reasonable mpg 🤣

[Big J]

5 minutes ago, benedmonds said:

Does that include, insurance, service and consumable costs? It does illustrate that the 45p a mile HMRC says you can pay as milage won't cover it.

 

No. EV tax is £30/year in Sweden, insurance similar to here, servicing costs reduced compared to ICE and consumables are similar. 

 

We'd do more than 12k a year, so the standing charges like insurance and tax become proportionally cheaper, and adding additional mileage allowances to the lease aren't proportionally more expensive.

[Baldbloke]

Big J, I'd also suggest that solar panel charging at night after daytime use of the car might be a bit of a disappointment, and, if using battery storage that you should price that into the equation too.

[Big J]

Just now, Baldbloke said:

Big J, I'd also suggest that solar panel charging at night after daytime use of the car might be a bit of a disappointment, and, if using battery storage that you should price that into the equation too.

 

We're looking at a panel array plus battery box system, so some gain will still be had. Also, the slightly longer days (we're on the same latitude as Aviemore) will mean that the panels will be producing before we get up and after we're back home through summer. There is about 50% more sunshine May-September compared to the UK, so efficiency should be good. 

 

You can also sell excess kw to the grid (and then buy it back when you need it), but I've not yet had a chance to discuss the economics of this with Svea Solar. We've got a chap coming on Thursday to inspect the house ahead of quoting for the installation, so I can ask him then.

[Woodworks]

9 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Here in Devon at the moment, we do about 45-50k between three vehicles a year. We'll reduce that a fair bit in Sweden as the school run reduces from 11 miles each way to 550m. But we'll still end up doing 36k I reckon.

 Thats one hell of a lot or miles J . No way to cut down?

 

Think we average 8k between the truck and the car but no kids which I know means a full time taxi service for most. 

[Big J]

Just now, Woodworks said:

 Thats one hell of a lot or miles J . No way to cut down?

 

Think we average 8k between the truck and the car but no kids which I know means a full time taxi service for most. 

 

Not really. The school run is effectively 50 miles a day. That's 10k miles just there. My wife probably does another 7-8k on other stuff too. 

 

Then I cover most of Devon with work. I've been working at Ashburton lately. That's a 76 mile round trip every day. 

 

Our family is in the midlands too, so trips to see them are between 360-420 miles in total. We're flying from Stansted tomorrow - that's 225 miles, but my wife is visiting friends in Norfolk with the girls at the moment. I sell a car near Stansted in the morning and join them. 

 

50k a year isn't difficult to do between two people.