Is there any treatment available for these trees?

[JaySmith]

Sounds as though the soil level was altered a long time ago by the look of the root flare. This may have began the downturn of the tree before other issues such as Kretzschmaria, sounds as though water and nutrient starvation may have been at play even before the excavation work. Also what you said about the small branches could just be cladoptosis if they are small and infrequent. However if they are more regular then could be a result of a potential compromised root structure.

That being said and without even seeing the trees in situ I would certainly look to do further investigative work. I think in the past people (including myself) hear Kretzschmaria and panic which leads to trees being taken down when they could have potentially continued. Don’t get me wrong established Kretzschmaria in a high target environment is nothing to be flippant about. In a big open space with exclusion measures places Kretzschmaria and beech can co-exist but then mitigating measures have been implemented, obviously that’s not an option in your case. I would certainly being done additional investigation work before deciding what to do. A quick probe around the large buttress roots with something like the IML probe will give an idea about current degradation. Depending on what that revealed I may then drill the roots with a resistograph to confirm /challenge what I was thinking. Appreciate that this is often not done as things like resistograph drilling arrest cheap if you don’t have one in house.

[benedmonds]

4 minutes ago, JaySmith said:

...A quick probe around the large buttress roots with something like the IML probe will give an idea about current degradation. Depending on what that revealed I may then drill the roots with a resistograph to confirm /challenge what I was thinking.

That would be challenging in this situation as the buttress roots have been buried...

 

Plus I am not convinced it will show anything useful. 

What do you do if you find the roots are ok?

 

While you may be able to retain for a few more years ultimately it will have to come out soon. 

 

In that location next to a road is it worth the risk?

 

[JaySmith]

That would be challenging in this situation as the buttress roots have been buried...
 
Plus I am not convinced it will show anything useful. 
What do you do if you find the roots are ok?
 
While you may be able to retain for a few more years ultimately it will have to come out soon. 
 
In that location next to a road is it worth the risk?
 

Hi Ben, could be challenging but not unachievable. Ultimately it will come down to how much you want to try and whether you wanted to try and save the trees.

I know of trees that have co-existed with Kretzschmaria for many years, ok maybe not in such a high target environment as this but like I said I think we are often quick to condemn trees when potentially mitigating works can prevent the removal. Could you plant more trees in the location now to supersede them and retain the beech for a few years then remove?

Only giving a balanced view, I’m not saying that I would keep them but I would certainly explore all of the options. This is easy to say without seeing the trees in person and as they seem to be in the US that won’t happen!

[Stere]

Quote

as they seem to be in the US that won’t happen!

 

Was thinking it looked like being in the US

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Stere

[JaySmith]

as they seem to be in the US that won’t happen!

 
Was thinking it looked like being in the US
 
 

Think it is looking at the street furniture, cars and on the Google image there is part of Pensilvania showing in the text

[eagles5769]

14 hours ago, JaySmith said:

 
Was thinking it looked like being in the US
 
 

Think it is looking at the street furniture, cars and on the Google image there is part of Pensilvania showing in the text

Yes I am in U.S. specifically Pennsylvania. So

resistograph or PICUS could be a good next step?

[JaySmith]

Yes I am in U.S. specifically Pennsylvania. So
resistograph or PICUS could be a good next step?

Not a Picus but potentially a resistograph. Picus largely focuses on the main stem, with the resistograph you can drill down into the buttress roots to get a reading. However as Ben as said this may prove difficult where the soil level looks to have been altered at some stage. Because of what we know about Kretzschmaria, the location of the tree and the host I would treat carefully and get all of the facts before deciding what to do

[daltontrees]

A 'clear' outcome from drilling or Picus would allow retention of the tree, but that's never going to be the outcome. This is where the problems start, investigations will at best be a sample of likely decay extent and would need very skilful interpretation to be able to derive remaining strength on which to predict likelihood of failure and base a decision as to whether to retain or intervene in some way.

I'd bet the K.d pre-dates the work 5 years ago. It is fairly slow moving, Lonsdale or someone like that recokoned 30 years from infection to failure. I generally see it as reaching the outside from the inside, so when you see fruiting it's a bad sign unless it's deep between otherwise healthy and sound butresses or ribs.

K'd start as a soft rot, progressing to white rot. This accelerates on aeration. Notably acoustic velocities can remain unchanged right up to the bitter end so a Picus may be of limited help. White rot is not normally associated with brittle failure, but that's what I see on Beech. All or nothing.

There's no right answer. Expensive and possibly inconclusive investigations, probably followed up with crown reduction at best or removal at worst, or a best-guess non invasive sounding leading again to some sort of works. Both scenarios are stalling the inevitable tree death. This needs to be weighed up against duty of care liability and how much the tree is valued by the owner and/or would be valued in a reduced stature.

Fungicidal treatment? What a load of bollocks.
The industry is set up differently in US than here, but if it were here I'd say do not ask a contractor. Ask a a consultant (who will not benefit from any paid tree work) to advise on all the aspects so that the client can make an informed decision that should be to some extent backed by the consultant's duty of care and insurance if litigation should arise.

I am going out ina  few minutes to look at a Beech that is a good bit bigger than yours, on the edge of a national tourist venue. Lots of decay a tthe base. The contractor's in-house consultant advised removal (£3K) but my preliminary look at it last week suggested a few metres off the top (£500) and it'll be OK for another 15 years. Thieving, lying bastards. Yours, like my client's, might be a situation that merits paying for impartial advice.

[benedmonds]

2 hours ago, daltontrees said:

.. The contractor's in-house consultant advised removal (£3K)..

 suggested a few metres off the top (£500) and it'll be OK for another 15 years. Thieving, lying bastards...

That is a bit harsh. The in house consultant has a different opinion. 

Why keep a tree 15 years, that will need regular maintenance and expensive annual or biannual reports from consultants (thieving bastards) and then it will still need felling..

Fell it now replant. In 15 years the replacement planted now will look way better then the newly replanted replacement ..😉

[AHPP]

That is a bit harsh. The in house consultant has a different opinion. 
Why keep a tree 15 years, that will need regular maintenance and expensive annual or biannual reports from consultants (thieving bastards) and then it will still need felling..
Fell it now replant. In 15 years the replacement planted now will look way better then the newly replanted replacement ..[emoji6]

If it’s a Go Ape venue and felling the tree causes them to move the course for £5k, retention makes sense.
Just guessing of course. I actually found myself initially agreeing with you, which didn’t seem right so I’m looking for explanations.