Woodburner...

[john87]

1 hour ago, trigger_andy said:

Even smokeless? 

I think so... Something wrong with the government. Sell off all the power companies to foreigners, then make it illegal to have any sort of power other than electric.. Lunacy.. [but minister, is that not why we have a deficit?? I mean, every time you turn on a tap or switch on a light, money literally flows out of the country..]

 

Brainless morons the lot of them..

 

john...

[john87]

24 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

No question that woodburners are more efficient. 

 

Some years ago a saw a study from some listed houses in Scotland on the efficiency of an open fires.

 

Cant remember all the detail but in some of the homes that had central heating as well the open fire had a negative effect on the overall temp of the building. The draw of the open fire literally sucked the heat out of the rest of the building and pushed it out up the chimney. 

Thing is, "Woodburners" need exactly the same amount of air to burn the same quantity of wood, so would not the amount of air drawn in be the same??

 

john..

[trigger_andy]

5 minutes ago, john87 said:

I think so... Something wrong with the government. Sell off all the power companies to foreigners, then make it illegal to have any sort of power other than electric.. Lunacy.. [but minister, is that not why we have a deficit?? I mean, every time you turn on a tap or switch on a light, money literally flows out of the country..]

 

Brainless morons the lot of them..

 

john...

No, from 2023 traditional coal will be phased out in England. Quite rightly too! 

 

Smokeless coal will continue to be sold. 

 

I have no issue with this at all. The attack on Logs is another matter though. 

[trigger_andy]

3 minutes ago, john87 said:

Thing is, "Woodburners" need exactly the same amount of air to burn the same quantity of wood, so would not the amount of air drawn in be the same??

 

john..

 

 

An open fire is 15% efficient, a stove is over 80% these days. 

[john87]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

 

 

An open fire is 15% efficient, a stove is over 80% these days. 

I do not understand.. If you burn the same amount of fuel, you need the same amount of air, and you have the same amount of products of combustion too [which go up the same chimney] and it produces the same amount of heat..

 

How come the difference, ESPECIALLY as the flue gasses from a woodburner go up a tin pipe to warm the sky whereas those from an open fire at least warm the flue on the way up??

 

If you try to reduce what goes up the flue, you will merely have incomplete combustion...

 

john..

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, john87 said:

I do not understand.. If you burn the same amount of fuel, you need the same amount of air, and you have the same amount of products of combustion too [which go up the same chimney] and it produces the same amount of heat..

 

How come the difference, ESPECIALLY as the flue gasses from a woodburner go up a tin pipe to warm the sky whereas those from an open fire at least warm the flue on the way up??

 

If you try to reduce what goes up the flue, you will merely have incomplete combustion...

 

john..

Get an open fire then. 

 

You've a loooooooot of reading and understanding to get your head around with your current mindset. 

[john87]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

Get an open fire then. 

 

You've a loooooooot of reading and understanding to get your head around with your current mindset. 

I am just asking before i decide...

 

To be honest, all of the woodburner i have seen have been crap, might as well have had a radiator instead, or a 70 year old rayburn. An open fire blasts out heat like nothing else..

 

john..

[trigger_andy]

Just now, john87 said:

I am just asking before i decide...

 

To be honest, all of the woodburner i have seen have been crap, might as well have had a radiator instead, or a 70 year old rayburn. An open fire blasts out heat like nothing else..

 

john..

 Modern Woodburners with afterburners are extremely efficient. For a 1 ton bag of logs you're getting over 80% of the heat into your room, with an open fire you're getting 15%. Its 85% of the the logs literally up in smoke. There is no point trying to reinvent the wheel here and debating it, thats the facts. 

 

An open fire clearly does not blast out the heat like nothing else, thats why its 15% efficient and a modern stove, which literally blasts out the heat like nothing else is over 80% efficient. 

 

You clearly have a hard-on for an open fire and dont seem to want a 'crappy woodburner'. Knock yourself out.

 

 

[Big J]

The primary reason that an open fire is so inefficient is that it doesn't allow for complete combustion. The primary combustion of timber simply releases the flammable gasses through pyrolysis to allow for oxidative combustion. The uncontrolled air flow that an open fire cannot avoid means that the flue gasses are simply ejected up the chimney. 

 

The upshot of this means that very little heat is given out to the room, and as Woodworks said, the net effect is often negative due to the removal of warmer air from inside the house. 

 

A decent stove allows you to modulate the air intake, meaning the stove can quickly be taken up to the correct operating temperature for pyrolysis and then the air flow carefully reduced to allow an efficient and slow burn. If the flue is smoking, you've throttled the air flow too much. It's really simple.

 

 

[john87]

1 minute ago, Big J said:

The primary reason that an open fire is so inefficient is that it doesn't allow for complete combustion. The primary combustion of timber simply releases the flammable gasses through pyrolysis to allow for oxidative combustion. The uncontrolled air flow that an open fire cannot avoid means that the flue gasses are simply ejected up the chimney. 

 

The upshot of this means that very little heat is given out to the room, and as Woodworks said, the net effect is often negative due to the removal of warmer air from inside the house. 

 

A decent stove allows you to modulate the air intake, meaning the stove can quickly be taken up to the correct operating temperature for pyrolysis and then the air flow carefully reduced to allow an efficient and slow burn. If the flue is smoking, you've throttled the air flow too much. It's really simple.

 

 

That sounds reasonable enough.. That is all i wanted, a proper explanation as opposed to what the makers would like you to believe.. [Remember how CD's were going to be practicably indestructible etc etc]

 

john..