Trailer towing

[trigger_andy]

2 hours ago, scottythepinetree said:

but on the whole, changes to driving laws and enforcement has had an undeniably positive affect on road traffic accidents since 1997 (and before). Injuries and deaths on the road have been dropping steadily since 1979, despite the number of vehicles on the road increasing. 

Car safety features and build quality have improved massively since then though. As has the stringency of the MOT. It this is by far the biggest reason for the drop in deaths on the roads. Then we have the change in the publics views on drink driving and having that better enforced. In my opinion the change in requiring a Trailer License post 1997 would be a mere blip on the stats.  

[scottythepinetree]

4 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

Car safety features and build quality have improved massively since then though. As has the stringency of the MOT. It this is by far the biggest reason for the drop in deaths on the roads. Then we have the change in the publics views on drink driving and having that better enforced. In my opinion the change in requiring a Trailer License post 1997 would be a mere blip on the stats.  

Safety in general isn't built upon any single aspect. It requires a multi-faceted risk based approach which includes engineering controls (like safety features, better roads, clearer sign posting), administrative controls (like lower limits for alcohol, more police presence, speed cameras), behavioral aspects (which includes the public views and attitude that you mentioned) and not least of all competence (knowledge, training and experience).

The trailer license is not that hard to get if the bureaucratic side of things is run correctly. It really is a no-brainer that vetting drivers before letting them on the road pulling heavy loads is a good idea. Think of the worst case scenario under the new rules. Do you think someone who has just passed their test and only ever driven a 1L Micra, should now be allowed to jump in a jeep and tow a couple of tonnes of a woodchipper on a public road, with no supervision, training or instruction?

This change wasn't brought in because it is a better idea or as some have said on here "some common sense, finally". It was brought in because the people running the testing/training couldn't manage it properly and let too big of a backlog build up. It is a quick sticking plaster response to a failure, which you should be annoyed about.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by scottythepinetree

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, scottythepinetree said:

Safety in general isn't built upon any single aspect. It requires a multi-faceted risk based approach which includes engineering controls (like safety features, better roads, clearer sign posting), administrative controls (like lower limits for alcohol, more police presence, speed cameras), behavioral aspects (which includes the public views and attitude that you mentioned) and not least of all competence (knowledge, training and experience).

The trailer license is not that hard to get if the bureaucratic side of things is run correctly. It really is a no-brainer that vetting drivers before letting them on the road pulling heavy loads is a good idea. Think of the worst case scenario under the new rules. Do you think someone who has just passed their test and only ever driven a 1l Micra, should now be allowed to jump in a jeep and tow a couple of tonnes of a woodchipper on a public road, with no supervision, training or instruction?

This change wasn't brought in because it is a better idea or as some have said on here "some common sense, finally". It was brought in because the people running the testing/training couldn't manage it properly and let too big a backlog build up. It is an quick sticking plaster response to a failure, which you should be annoyed about.

 

You’ve worded the first paragraph better than I. I don’t see how it contradicts what I said? 
 

Take your 1l Mica as an example. Do you think they should be allowed to jump into a Grand Cherokee regardless if it’s towing or not? Ironically as soon as my 18 year old will be doing just that if she passes her test at the end of the month.

 

I really don’t care why it was brought in, I just don’t think the drop in traffic accidents since the 70’s is due to the trailer rule that came into effect in 1997. In my opinion the reasons as what you outlined in your first paragraph.
 

But I’ll now be able to tow 3.5t without looking over my shoulder for the Coopers all the time. And that surely is gonna be much safer. 🤣 

[Justme]

9 hours ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

most test fails / hard client were the one that a, have been doing it for a long time & b, think they have nothing to learn.

[John Shutler]

11 hours ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

i’m in exactly the same position as you matty

just because you’ve not done a trailer test doesn’t mean you don’t know how to load a trailer or how to drive sensibly.   

 

[Rough Hewn]

I suppose it’ll be easier for the traffic officers too.
They don’t know if the driver has a b+e until they pull them.
But now they’ll just look for piss takers with overloaded or unsound trailers.

[Justme]

13 minutes ago, John Shutler said:

i’m in exactly the same position as you matty

just because you’ve not done a trailer test doesn’t mean you don’t know how to load a trailer or how to drive sensibly.   

 

If you take a second & stop thinking about you & start to think about the rest of the population you would see why its needed. People that can are very much in the minority. Over the last 6 years & about 1000 tests I have had TWO clients that could have passed the driving bit with no help, both would have failed the hitching bit. Get plenty that would pass the reverse once they know the rules but almost none that would have passed the hitching without the training or the pre course docs / videos.

[Justme]

11 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

I suppose it’ll be easier for the traffic officers too.
They don’t know if the driver has a b+e until they pull them.
But now they’ll just look for piss takers with overloaded or unsound trailers.

Or in the ditch  

[John Shutler]

1 minute ago, Justme said:

If you take a second & stop thinking about you & start to think about the rest of the population you would see why its needed. People that can are very much in the minority. Over the last 6 years & about 1000 tests I have had TWO clients that could have passed the driving bit with no help, both would have failed the hitching bit. Get plenty that would pass the reverse once they know the rules but almost none that would have passed the hitching without the training or the pre course docs / videos.

i can’t comment on the semantics of how to hitch a trailer to pass a trailer test, or infact how to reverse a trailer to pass a test. however just because it is the “approved” version it doesn’t mean it’s better imo. thankfully il

no longer have to pass a test to carry out something i’m perfectly capable of doing. 

my main issue is with the lack of common sense applied in these situations, I know plenty of 16-18yr olds who I wouldn’t trust to boil an egg, likewise i know a couple who id trust implicitly to run my tractor and grain trailer.

[Justme]

3 minutes ago, John Shutler said:

i can’t comment on the semantics of how to hitch a trailer to pass a trailer test, or infact how to reverse a trailer to pass a test. however just because it is the “approved” version it doesn’t mean it’s better imo.

There are definitely safe & unsafe ways to hitch a trailer.

 

Its not just about using an approved method its about risk reduction.

 

Horse (and other sectors too) people without fail wont apply the brake before un hitching for example.

 

Honestly my best clients tended to come from the Arb world. 

Which is why you all think its not needed.

You understand risk, you take your time & mostly have already towed / reversed prior to taking the course.

 

About 10% of the rest will take all day to almost get reversing & can only do it by "painting by numbers" rather than understanding the process.