Trailer towing

[doobin]

54 minutes ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

Fully agree. We need less regulation not more.

 

Plenty of young lads with souped up Corsas (at least, that what they had when I were a lad! 😀) will have passed a driving test... doesn't mean that you want your daughter in the car with them.

[benedmonds]

1 hour ago, difflock said:

Have you the accident statistics to back that up, how dangerous, or more correctly, how accident causing, the young agricultural drivers are I mean.

Anyway the various insurers will have the statistics based on their liabilty, and the fact that they have not incited the Government to bring in harsher agricultural regulations, simply means there is no need to address this non exstent issue, however anomalous it may appear to be.

Again.

Follow the money. 

It seems logical that young drivers with little training are going to be considerably higher risk and that training would reduce the risk. There are relatively few tractors so will be relatively few incidents but that also means relatively little training would be involved to upskill the young farmers.  However the farming community is a pretty strong lobbying force that resists change especially when it concerns the health and safety and factors that make running small family farms more expensive.

 

Most teenage boys do stupid things.

 

A quick search (as I am not that interested) and I found this research that states:

 

.. young tractor drivers (aged 15 to 24) account for an above-average proportion of accidents compared with this age group‘s share of the population as a whole..

 

https://circabc.europa.eu/sd/a/9ee83ee8-5013-4910-8c14-7080f0166745/09_2_DE report_UDV-kompakt_RisikoTraktor.pdf

 

 

[scottythepinetree]

On 10/09/2021 at 21:02, ChrisNewport said:

Ive just been reading that people are up in arms about this saying that there will be thousands of more deaths on the roads due to this, an upside down caravan on every corner and a trailer in every ditch. Pre 1997 i dont recall a mass of trailer and caravan accidents.

This may not be directly related to trailers, but on the whole, changes to driving laws and enforcement has had an undeniably positive affect on road traffic accidents since 1997 (and before). Injuries and deaths on the road have been dropping steadily since 1979, despite the number of vehicles on the road increasing. I wonder if the nearsightedness will remain if accidents increase and insurance premiums go up across the board as a result?:
 

1 hour ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

An independent test isn't about whether or not you are capable of towing a trailer, it's about proving your competence (and everyone else's) before being allowed to be responsible for towing a trailer on public roads.

It's not some insurmountable obstacle in the way of all the young kids whose dream it is to tow trailers over 750kg. It's an inconvenience far outweighed by the benefits. If there are hold ups and bureaucracy causing unnecessary delays, then that is an issue that needs to be addressed. Every job has barriers to entry. The barriers should reflect the potential earnings, in an ideal world. Where this isn't the case, that too is an area that needs to be looked at.

I can't help but think that this is a populist decision that will ultimately lead to more accidents/fatalities on the roads.

[trigger_andy]

2 hours ago, scottythepinetree said:

but on the whole, changes to driving laws and enforcement has had an undeniably positive affect on road traffic accidents since 1997 (and before). Injuries and deaths on the road have been dropping steadily since 1979, despite the number of vehicles on the road increasing. 

Car safety features and build quality have improved massively since then though. As has the stringency of the MOT. It this is by far the biggest reason for the drop in deaths on the roads. Then we have the change in the publics views on drink driving and having that better enforced. In my opinion the change in requiring a Trailer License post 1997 would be a mere blip on the stats.  

[scottythepinetree]

4 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

Car safety features and build quality have improved massively since then though. As has the stringency of the MOT. It this is by far the biggest reason for the drop in deaths on the roads. Then we have the change in the publics views on drink driving and having that better enforced. In my opinion the change in requiring a Trailer License post 1997 would be a mere blip on the stats.  

Safety in general isn't built upon any single aspect. It requires a multi-faceted risk based approach which includes engineering controls (like safety features, better roads, clearer sign posting), administrative controls (like lower limits for alcohol, more police presence, speed cameras), behavioral aspects (which includes the public views and attitude that you mentioned) and not least of all competence (knowledge, training and experience).

The trailer license is not that hard to get if the bureaucratic side of things is run correctly. It really is a no-brainer that vetting drivers before letting them on the road pulling heavy loads is a good idea. Think of the worst case scenario under the new rules. Do you think someone who has just passed their test and only ever driven a 1L Micra, should now be allowed to jump in a jeep and tow a couple of tonnes of a woodchipper on a public road, with no supervision, training or instruction?

This change wasn't brought in because it is a better idea or as some have said on here "some common sense, finally". It was brought in because the people running the testing/training couldn't manage it properly and let too big of a backlog build up. It is a quick sticking plaster response to a failure, which you should be annoyed about.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by scottythepinetree

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, scottythepinetree said:

Safety in general isn't built upon any single aspect. It requires a multi-faceted risk based approach which includes engineering controls (like safety features, better roads, clearer sign posting), administrative controls (like lower limits for alcohol, more police presence, speed cameras), behavioral aspects (which includes the public views and attitude that you mentioned) and not least of all competence (knowledge, training and experience).

The trailer license is not that hard to get if the bureaucratic side of things is run correctly. It really is a no-brainer that vetting drivers before letting them on the road pulling heavy loads is a good idea. Think of the worst case scenario under the new rules. Do you think someone who has just passed their test and only ever driven a 1l Micra, should now be allowed to jump in a jeep and tow a couple of tonnes of a woodchipper on a public road, with no supervision, training or instruction?

This change wasn't brought in because it is a better idea or as some have said on here "some common sense, finally". It was brought in because the people running the testing/training couldn't manage it properly and let too big a backlog build up. It is an quick sticking plaster response to a failure, which you should be annoyed about.

 

You’ve worded the first paragraph better than I. I don’t see how it contradicts what I said? 
 

Take your 1l Mica as an example. Do you think they should be allowed to jump into a Grand Cherokee regardless if it’s towing or not? Ironically as soon as my 18 year old will be doing just that if she passes her test at the end of the month.

 

I really don’t care why it was brought in, I just don’t think the drop in traffic accidents since the 70’s is due to the trailer rule that came into effect in 1997. In my opinion the reasons as what you outlined in your first paragraph.
 

But I’ll now be able to tow 3.5t without looking over my shoulder for the Coopers all the time. And that surely is gonna be much safer. 🤣 

[Justme]

9 hours ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

most test fails / hard client were the one that a, have been doing it for a long time & b, think they have nothing to learn.

[John Shutler]

11 hours ago, MattyF said:

After spending 20 years towing a sub 750kg chipper and reversing off all manor off roads and in to tight drives and driving tractors with forwarding trailers loaded through thinned woods and narrow country lanes I'm pretty sure I don't need to take a test to tow a trailer like most of us ... any one who disagrees Is feeling butt hurt about spending the money or already had it on there licence and that the advantage had helped them make money over competitors ... now it's a level playing Feild.

i’m in exactly the same position as you matty

just because you’ve not done a trailer test doesn’t mean you don’t know how to load a trailer or how to drive sensibly.   

 

[Rough Hewn]

I suppose it’ll be easier for the traffic officers too.
They don’t know if the driver has a b+e until they pull them.
But now they’ll just look for piss takers with overloaded or unsound trailers.

[Justme]

13 minutes ago, John Shutler said:

i’m in exactly the same position as you matty

just because you’ve not done a trailer test doesn’t mean you don’t know how to load a trailer or how to drive sensibly.   

 

If you take a second & stop thinking about you & start to think about the rest of the population you would see why its needed. People that can are very much in the minority. Over the last 6 years & about 1000 tests I have had TWO clients that could have passed the driving bit with no help, both would have failed the hitching bit. Get plenty that would pass the reverse once they know the rules but almost none that would have passed the hitching without the training or the pre course docs / videos.