What is this please....

[Mick Dempsey]

12 hours ago, CambridgeJC said:

Hi Mick. This is good strong evidence that a single plant can sprout alternative leaf shape. Very convincing. And new information to me at least. 
There is huge confusion and contradictory information online and especially when referring to google results as a source. We cannot believe everything that others say. That’s why I am keen to ask true expert for hard knowledge. Both field workers and plant research scientists. 
I have yet to find such a branch with both leaf shapes myself and will now definitely renew my efforts. Thanks. 

Good input. As you seem to work in this business could I perhaps ask for some help to get more observations on this issue? Someone needs to get fully up to date with this issue for the sake of clarity. Can you maybe agree with me on this point?

There’s no need, there is no issue.

 

 

 

[daltontrees]

As a risk surveyor I usualy only recommend removal or severance to allow suspected defects to be identifed now or at future surveys, or where the extent of ivy is clearly causing trees to be unduly tall or overextended as a means of not being killed from lack of light. In either case this is restricted to trees near targets or trees important for visual amenity (Cat A or B). It's then the tree owner's decision whether to accept the recommendation or not. It would take a court case to show whether a tree owner is negilgent in ignoring the recommendation to allow a suspected defect to be fully assessed.

[CambridgeJC]

I completely understand this from your position as risk surveyor...but this would be mainly risk of falling or other danger to persons or property I guess...not the longterm risk of ivy growth in the countryside and hedgerows which is primarily what I am investigating.

No-one has yet come back with a definitive statement of the species of ivy involved. I don't think we are seeing a new species but rather an enhanced tendency towards vigorous growth upwards due either to a climatic or environmental cause or possibly changes to the advised management and husbandry. There is a huge increase in trees overladen with heavy ivy growth towards and into the canopy in my part of the UK.

Today I went to check Mick's evidence of both leaf types emanating from the same plant at ground level...I could only find a single leaf type on any one stem when checked back to ground level...however I did find evidence of stems combining and then splitting again with some even growing back downwards.

I understand Hedera is in fact hermaphrodite and possesses male and female elements on the same plant. This is interesting as the rounded fleshy paler leaves from ground up wards are the only ones I could find with seed pods from flowering fronds. Could it possibly be that the male is the smaller darker typical ivy shaped leaves found on the ground and the female branches climb vigorously far into the canopy. Both can be found down at ground level but only on their own separate stems. I really need an expert to pronounce on this issue please.

Could Mick's image of both leaves on a single stem be on in which the two have grown together at height as in my image attached? The image is correct way up and the broken bit continued upwards after combining and then dividing again.

[Peasgood]

Mature and juvenile foliage is a different shape, nothing to do with reproduction.

[CambridgeJC]

Thanks...it would be most helpful if you could refer me to a reference article on this subject...all I can find so far is the occasional statement of fact or opinion, and I am unable to distinguish these apart. 

Is ivy hermaphrodite? can you confirm this?

[daltontrees]

Risk of ivy growing in the countryside? It's probably been growing in the contryside for as along as trees have. The trees it kills are really good habitat. The idea of a nice clean tree with branches only above 8 feet is a human fantasy. Nature's nature, and it's brutal.

Personally I loathe ivy on trees, from my climbing days, but it exists and is nearly impossible to get rid of so it just has to be seen as part of ecology.

The range of leaf shapes and sizes for H.h is perplexing, hard to believe it's the same species sometimes let alone part of the same individual.

I pause to ponder ivy occasionaly, and I have planted some variegated ones in my garden, but I'm not losing any sleep over this issue, and good luck with your quest.

[CambridgeJC]

Hi Jules...Risk of ivy growing in the countryside?  That is not really what I meant to say, as I am fully aware this has probably  been occurring for millennia...I am concerned by the risks posed by ivy growth to excess into the canopy of deciduous woodland and hedgerows. These risks are the domination of ivy to the exclusion of traditional trees and hedgerow species as well as dangerous tree fall etc from wind. If allowed to continue on the current path I would suggest that a large number of countryside woodlands and roadside trees and hedgerows will change dramatically for the worse due to trees falling and hedgerows collapsing and this has nothing to do with the cosmetic appearance, but major changes to the habitats and ecology of flora and fauna. Do we sit back and allow this to happen? Or do we recognise the risks this poses and take responsibility for husbandry of our countryside and manage this responsibly?

By the way...I may be classified as a junior member here, but I am recently retired and have an amateur (Loving caring) concern of the countryside around me. I suspect as do most on this forum.

[Stubby]

23 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Hi Jules...Risk of ivy growing in the countryside?  That is not really what I meant to say, as I am fully aware this has probably  been occurring for millennia...I am concerned by the risks posed by ivy growth to excess into the canopy of deciduous woodland and hedgerows. These risks are the domination of ivy to the exclusion of traditional trees and hedgerow species as well as dangerous tree fall etc from wind. If allowed to continue on the current path I would suggest that a large number of countryside woodlands and roadside trees and hedgerows will change dramatically for the worse due to trees falling and hedgerows collapsing and this has nothing to do with the cosmetic appearance, but major changes to the habitats and ecology of flora and fauna. Do we sit back and allow this to happen? Or do we recognise the risks this poses and take responsibility for husbandry of our countryside and manage this responsibly?

By the way...I may be classified as a junior member here, but I am recently retired and have an amateur (Loving caring) concern of the countryside around me. I suspect as do most on this forum.

You godda do what you think is right . Get severing that ivy . You , on your Jack Jones won't stop climate change , if that is what is causing this ivy outrage ./

[gary112]

37 minutes ago, CambridgeJC said:

Hi Jules...Risk of ivy growing in the countryside?  That is not really what I meant to say, as I am fully aware this has probably  been occurring for millennia...I am concerned by the risks posed by ivy growth to excess into the canopy of deciduous woodland and hedgerows. These risks are the domination of ivy to the exclusion of traditional trees and hedgerow species as well as dangerous tree fall etc from wind. If allowed to continue on the current path I would suggest that a large number of countryside woodlands and roadside trees and hedgerows will change dramatically for the worse due to trees falling and hedgerows collapsing and this has nothing to do with the cosmetic appearance, but major changes to the habitats and ecology of flora and fauna. Do we sit back and allow this to happen? Or do we recognise the risks this poses and take responsibility for husbandry of our countryside and manage this responsibly?

By the way...I may be classified as a junior member here, but I am recently retired and have an amateur (Loving caring) concern of the countryside around me. I suspect as do most on this forum.

I still don,t see the big panic about it,i,ve lived and worked in the countryside all my life(50yrs)and to be honest i don,t see this big change your talking of,there,s always been ivy and probably always will be,just not seeing the big problem

[CambridgeJC]

Thanks. You’re right. I can’t stop climate change. But if enough people recognise the issues raised by uncontrolled ivy invasion then together those in the industry can start to take responsible remedial action to lessen the impact and retain some semblance of control over this encroachment by ivy. I suspect it is going unnoticed at the moment or at least the risks are not fully recognised. Even by those in authority over our countryside and woodlands. I am talking to them independently but its not a comfortable subject for them for some reason.