Shared Log Business with Land Owner?

[henchard]

I live in South Wales and currently have a smallholding with some mature woodland. I've negotiated (subject to contract) to purchase another 29 acres with a lot of mature (and fallen) trees as well.

 

Now I'm too old (retired) for doing it myself but wondered if anyone had any experience of some sort of shared timber/log supply business.

In essence I'm thinking a bit along the lines of share farming. Something like I provide the facilities and trees (i'm thinking of building a suitable agricultural shed) and another party provides the labour and distribution, probably sharing the costs of any onsite equipment and we share the profits.

Appreciate that this might be fraught with issues and it might be better if I just pay someone for their time cutting and splitting for me.

But just wondered if anyone had made something like this work.

Thoughts?

Based near Carmarthen BTW

[Dan Maynard]

I guess the problem I see with sharing costs is that some are very long term (woods, barn) and some will be day to day such as fuel, chains etc. Balancing the profit to reflect this will be tricky.

If you pay someone to cut and split then all the risk and reward are with you, or even sell the timber standing, cut your risk to nothing. Either is more clear cut and hence better to me.

[arboriculturist]

There are several on the Forum with a lifetimes experience of producing and retailing firewood, combined with the latest Regulations - they will all offer their advice for free - no no no no no.

 

If plantation woodland, sell ideally to a recommended independent harvesting contractor who will handle the Felling Licence and if it not plantation woodland it is very unlikely it is worth touching.

 

Sorry to sound a little blunt, but that is the long and the short of it.

[openspaceman]

7 hours ago, henchard said:

 Something like I provide the facilities and trees (i'm thinking of building a suitable agricultural shed) and another party provides the labour and distribution, probably sharing the costs of any onsite equipment and we share the profits.

Sell him the timber standing and charge a rent for the use of the barn and yard.

[Big J]

You're much better off selling the timber at roadside as it's exempt from income tax. The moment you do any further processing, income tax applies. 

 

Sell it at roadside to a firewood producer who works from your site if you want, but keep the enterprises separate.

[slack ma girdle]

8 hours ago, henchard said:

I live in South Wales and currently have a smallholding with some mature woodland. I've negotiated (subject to contract) to purchase another 29 acres with a lot of mature (and fallen) trees as well.

 

Now I'm too old (retired) for doing it myself but wondered if anyone had any experience of some sort of shared timber/log supply business.

In essence I'm thinking a bit along the lines of share farming. Something like I provide the facilities and trees (i'm thinking of building a suitable agricultural shed) and another party provides the labour and distribution, probably sharing the costs of any onsite equipment and we share the profits.

Appreciate that this might be fraught with issues and it might be better if I just pay someone for their time cutting and splitting for me.

But just wondered if anyone had made something like this work.

Thoughts?

Based near Carmarthen BTW

I'm based in Pembroke,  so not far. Give me a ring 07966792798. I can give you a good idea about what is feasible, costs, possible income etc.

[henchard]

Thanks for the comments  everyone, it is appreciated. If anyone has further ideas I'll be glad to hear them. For the benefit of clarification I'm not talking a plantation but agricultural land with a lot of very old trees(quite a few dead and fallen etc. or coming to the end of their lives) mostly oak, ash etc.

Road access is very poor so so cannot get anything much bigger than  a 20' 4 wheeler lorry here.

 

Thanks again

[Squaredy]

4 hours ago, henchard said:

Thanks for the comments  everyone, it is appreciated. If anyone has further ideas I'll be glad to hear them. For the benefit of clarification I'm not talking a plantation but agricultural land with a lot of very old trees(quite a few dead and fallen etc. or coming to the end of their lives) mostly oak, ash etc.

Road access is very poor so so cannot get anything much bigger than  a 20' 4 wheeler lorry here.

 

Thanks again

It sounds as if a full management plan needs to be drawn up, which will eventually turn the woodland into a productive woodland with good ecological benefits also.  But I suspect the cost of doing this will far outweigh the timber value.  Felling and extraction alone may be £50 per ton if it is all done by hand and with a skidding tractor.  The resulting logs once processed and stacked to dry for a year or two and delivered to many customers will then be worth maybe £130 per ton.  And to achieve this you will need a large yard, drying sheds, many strong crates, forklift, possibly a kiln, not to mention a firewood processor and a delivery vehicle.

 

If the landowner wanted to do this for his or her own use and to make a bit of pocket money then maybe it can be done with minimal equipment.  Or if it is to be done to improve the woodland (rather than make money) then it could work.

 

As a business, a neglected woodland with poor access is no more valuable than the stone beneath your feet.  Yes it has value, but usually far less than production cost.

 

You could speak to Coed Cymru the timber charity as they will give free woodland management advice, and will know if there are any grants to help.