Arb line vs EN1891A vs Abseil Rope vs Marine Line

[crotchgrabber]

Hello everyone,  I am a green beginner and this is my first post so go easy on me if this is a subject that has been discussed to death or is so obvious it doesn't need explanation.

I have done a search but only found one thread that seemed to touch on it slightly, which was someone asking whether some LSK rope they found on ebay was legit.

 

I am just gearing up (just for recreational and hobby purposes for forseeable time) and the bit of gear that has been left till last has been the most important, the climbing line. Because it is somewhat confusing what types of rope is suitable, and because anything labelled / marketed for Arb use costs at least twice as much as seemingly identical but less excitingly coloured alternatives.

 

Would anyone care to share experiences and information about the use of non arb line as arb climbing line and how well or badly they functioned for the purpose?

 

From the information I have seen, it seems that all these varieties of rope have a similar construction braided polyester, nylon or polypropelene with dyneema or aramid cores available in marine rope.

Arb specific rope seems to prefer lower strand numbers (for durability?) , half inch diameter for traditional blakes hitch climbing and 10mm-12mm for SRT with devices.

 

Every explanation of why only Arb specific climbing line is suitable for trees (compared to other semi-static ropes) is that they hold arborist knots while others (caving, marine etc) do not. But the manufacturers descriptions of most modern semi static rope offerings from safety equipment fields and especially rock climbing companies like Edelrid, Petzl, Tendon, Beal etc.. emphasise "Excellent knottability". Are they lying? Is excellent knottability in mountaineering terms actually piss poor in arborist terms?

 

 

[Tommy_B]

Hi there. It depends on what the rope is designed for to be honest and what could happen. For example, if you are looking to use a dynamic rope for rigging, the piece is going to get to the point where it should stop, then go a bit further and come back up to see you! There was a great story on here of someone who did just that and watched an oak log punch hole after hole in the shed roof below!

If you are climbing on a dynamic rope you are kinda moving away from the intended use. Rock climbing and lead ropes are designed to catch you if you do fall so are bouncy. Arborist lines are designed to hold you without any planned drops. 

Knotability with regard to mountaineering (afaik) is that you knot it at the start and you want it to stay put till the end. Arborist ropes are more frequently tied and untied

[Steve Bullman]

Nylon ropes are no use for arb, too low melting point. Most rock climbing ropes have a nylon sheath I believe

[Canal Navvy]

I've always assumed that arb climbing lines are a relatively small market so competition doesn't push the price down to silly prices. It is quite a big ask of a rope maker to create a climbing line that is non stretchy enough to allow work positioning without making it so static that a small fall doesn't become life threatening.

[crotchgrabber]

5 hours ago, Canal Navvy said:

I've always assumed that arb climbing lines are a relatively small market so competition doesn't push the price down to silly prices. It is quite a big ask of a rope maker to create a climbing line that is non stretchy enough to allow work positioning without making it so static that a small fall doesn't become life threatening.

I think yes but no, because working at heights on stuff like oil rigs, bridges, concerts, wind turbines, theatre, military, rescue and even window cleaning are all industries which demand the use of EN1891 rope, which is semi static and sharing pretty much all the same properties as arborist climbing line. The only things I can gather "work positioning" type ropes lack is bright colours and prioritising knottability. The ropes are almost always white, and in the case of military and theatre - they are pure black,

 

Ironically a lot of these "working at height" type jobs would probably be better suited to dynamic rope. Those at risk of falling have to use a fall arrest/shock absorbing device , where with a dynamic rope they wouldnt need to.

[HuntingHicap]

I did the abseil down the Spinnaker at Portsmouth thing, with a young lad celebrating his exams, (he paid, pots of money) the rope they use is noticeably smaller and bouncier, especially when you get about halfway down, would be pretty difficult to work off tbh.

[patrickgalloway3]

As long as you have a sewn termination or spliced eye knotability is a bit of a non issue. Irata lads have to tie alpine butterfly, figure of 8knots and bunnies ears.  Beal access rope can be bought for less than £1 a meter. Not as nice to look at or use as an Arborsts rope though

[crotchgrabber]

1 hour ago, patrickgalloway3 said:

As long as you have a sewn termination or spliced eye knotability is a bit of a non issue. Irata lads have to tie alpine butterfly, figure of 8knots and bunnies ears.  Beal access rope can be bought for less than £1 a meter. Not as nice to look at or use as an Arborsts rope though

lovely info packed a=reply there. May I ask where Beal Access rope is less than £1? 

[patrickgalloway3]

Abaris. 

Beal 10.5mm Semi-static Low Stretch Industry Rope with 1 Termination

WWW.ABARIS.CO.UK

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Beal 10.5mm Industry (formerly Antipodes rope is a semi-static...

 

[patrickgalloway3]

Beal Contract 10.5mm Semi-static Low Stretch Abseil Rope

WWW.ABARIS.CO.UK

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Beal Contract 10.5mm Low Stretch Abseil Rope for industrial use. A...