Forestry/woodland work, day rates?

[gibbon]

sorry, but its going to be a rare lad who is worth that as a beginner IMO......chances are hes going to be blunting the saw most of the day and you're either going to have to be constantly stopping what you're doing to sharpen his saw, or else letting him do it painfully slowly and still have a below par saw at the end of it.

 

Thats what I recon. A new guy (no prior experience) is an investment, they rarely earn you as much as they cost you to employ them

[Mozza]

How much of a beginner, Is the beginner?? £70 a day for a complete beginner, Is too much imo

[Doug Blease]

Sorry, I miss read that. I thought you said ten tonnes.

 

Again though, 7 tonnes of what? Is it even production cutting or maybe just clearing?

[Joy Yeomans]

sorry, but its going to be a rare lad who is worth that as a beginner IMO......chances are hes going to be blunting the saw most of the day and you're either going to have to be constantly stopping what you're doing to sharpen his saw, or else letting him do it painfully slowly and still have a below par saw at the end of it.

 

if your not pushing your men to hard, have a fag break etc, you should get at least 2 timber trailers of wood out of them a day ie. about 15 tonne each man. working 8-4 daylight hours.

 

trouble is newbies - inexperienced - even lads who have got tickets etc can seriously hamper work rates, picking trees to fell if thinning, cutting to low/too high, getting them snagged up, all can pull you off your felling and lower the daily tally. - making a good job soon turn into a bad one

[Andy Collins]

sorry, but its going to be a rare lad who is worth that as a beginner IMO......chances are hes going to be blunting the saw most of the day and you're either going to have to be constantly stopping what you're doing to sharpen his saw, or else letting him do it painfully slowly and still have a below par saw at the end of it.

 

You are of course correct, and it can be frustrating but I was thinking maybe one day for a new lad to learn a little bit here and there. We need to encourage new people in this trade, they'll be tomorrows fellers and climbers, and they cant get on at all if they arent given a break. But it is a cost thing at the end of the day, and I aint got Oxfam tatooed on my head!

Dave the 7tonne average was quoted by someone else, and I just thought out loud.

As the work is varied, from sorting a stand of oak, to thinning ash, a pine belt, and whatever else is found to do, until I go over and look it over, not sure how much of each there is to do, and even if there is room/time for a beginner at all. Just looking for ideas of labour costs, and I may well stick with the tried and tested guys I know and trust.

[Doug Blease]

Remember your first question is about a day rate for cutters. Not piece rates.

 

If its varied work, why not price up the whole job, time allowed and number of cutters. New guy starts from the bottom up. Carrying fuel/saws/levers/wedges/hammers, gets to fell a few trees under supervision when things are going well.

 

From the price and time allowed you can figure out your day rate plus profits for your business.

[Joy Yeomans]

You are of course correct, and it can be frustrating but I was thinking maybe one day for a new lad to learn a little bit here and there. We need to encourage new people in this trade, they'll be tomorrows fellers and climbers, and they cant get on at all if they arent given a break. But it is a cost thing at the end of the day, and I aint got Oxfam tatooed on my head!

Dave the 7tonne average was quoted by someone else, and I just thought out loud.

As the work is varied, from sorting a stand of oak, to thinning ash, a pine belt, and whatever else is found to do, until I go over and look it over, not sure how much of each there is to do, and even if there is room/time for a beginner at all. Just looking for ideas of labour costs, and I may well stick with the tried and tested guys I know and trust.

 

andy - in same position as you - we have been contacted by a number of people who want to gain experience - see if this is for them - but we arent a charity either - and lads have to understand how this sector gets to its prices i think which then in turn gives them their wages - we dont run on a daily rate which we charge the customer, its on tonnage felled usually, and then only on what you can get for that timber - what the mills or other purchases will pay. if you felling for pulp at £14/t you cant pay big bucks

[Husky D]

Andy, I think £50-60 a day as your providing all eqpt would be a fair amount.

As you said its to give someone an introduction to the job and experience that others wouldn't be willing to offer and also there have been plenty of people wanting to get in to arb work who have offered there services for free to drag brash etc just to get to see the job first hand. Forestry can be abit of a closed shop at times so to get an opportunity to "have a go" with experienced hands to watch and advise and get payed is a bonus! No your not a charity but you are trying to be fair so good on you.

I think for a beginner piece rate would be unfair and encourage sloppyness or rough work just to try and make it and would probably end in tears(its bad enough for experienced people!) and your work or reputation could suffer for it.

If some people think its a bit harsh to only pay £50-60 just remember as others have said experienced fellers out there might make £80-100 (unless in bigger timber)but you'd be burning 5+ litres of fuel plus oil/chains,files and travelling and be expected to turn out acceptable work, perhaps select tree's to fell, stack etc then your going back to the same ballpark as your beginner!

Regarding tonnage felled in a day on some sites ive worked on if I could fell,sned or delimb and stack 7 tons a day every day i'd be happy!

Log baron if your guys can easily fell 15 tons a day each then your either in some nice thinnings (do you need a hand:biggrin:) or their bloody good and need looking after!!

[Joy Yeomans]

Log baron if your guys can easily fell 15 tons a day each then your either in some nice thinnings (do you need a hand:biggrin:) or their bloody good and need looking after!!

 

15 tonnes on nice beech thinning - 10 tonnes prob the norm - (2 x 6 tonne botex trailer fulls) but weve got some bloody good guys! and im really proud to have them work with me! - Mick, Tony i hope your reading this - Im bosting about them now - theyll get all big headed in the morning!

[combined tree services]

I think that the price of a man is dependant on how he preforms - i am tired of getting guys down on trilas that can talk a decent job but in reality cant carry it out but still feel that they are worth top money , i think from now on i will set a base reat and re assess the figure at the end of a weeks work - newbies would start on 65 per day as i would suply everything and a decent bloke with his own ppe and certs would start on 75-80 per day , the problem would come when th newby needs showing how to do things - the decent skilled guy aint being paid to teach .