Advice needed re cable pulling winch

[ESS]

1 hour ago, blackeyeler said:

New member here. I am trying to find a reference in the forums to wire rope fouling , twisting and coiling. The kit is an Igland 55 winch and I am constantly having to cut lengths off the wire rope due to coiling. Any one able to point me to a discussion? All help gratefully received. Blackeyeler.

Where is it coiling, in the middle? If so is the brake set a bit light allowing it to overrun on pulling the rope out, causing loose coils on the drum ?

[blackeyeler]

Hi ESS, thanks for the prompt response. We already cut 15 metres off the swage end due to coiling and then set to work again. The brake is a bit of a nightmare. I understand about the over-running issue. When I adjust the brake to stop over-run I can hardly pull the rope out. Yesterday the first 5 metres became coiled again. When hauling logs the rope tends to get bound in the drum . The inclusion of a bale arm that would lay the cable evenly across the drum ( a bit like a fishing reel) would probably make things better because the rope tends to accumulate at one point then collapse across itself. We just recently had a modification to the top brake band ,opposite side to the brake tensioner, by the addition of a spring loaded adjuster because the brake plate kept binding on that side when pulling out cable. The engineer who made the modification wants to put the winch into his waste metal skip. Rope was replace Nov 18. New clutch plate 3 weeks ago. Winch was new 2009. The clutch is also a finnicky so and so. There is a sweet spot where one is just able to haul and any tighter and the unit self hauls. It used to be that I could lift three logs up to the top of the skidder plate and fix the choke chains on the combs , lift the plate and drive off. Now when I lift to the same point the rope just rolls off the drum before I get the chance to fix the chains. I bet you wish you hadn't responded to this issue now!!!    Are the fibre ropes any good? I haven't met anyone using them yet.

[ESS]

6 minutes ago, blackeyeler said:

Hi ESS, thanks for the prompt response. We already cut 15 metres off the swage end due to coiling and then set to work again. The brake is a bit of a nightmare. I understand about the over-running issue. When I adjust the brake to stop over-run I can hardly pull the rope out. Yesterday the first 5 metres became coiled again. When hauling logs the rope tends to get bound in the drum . The inclusion of a bale arm that would lay the cable evenly across the drum ( a bit like a fishing reel) would probably make things better because the rope tends to accumulate at one point then collapse across itself. We just recently had a modification to the top brake band ,opposite side to the brake tensioner, by the addition of a spring loaded adjuster because the brake plate kept binding on that side when pulling out cable. The engineer who made the modification wants to put the winch into his waste metal skip. Rope was replace Nov 18. New clutch plate 3 weeks ago. Winch was new 2009. The clutch is also a finnicky so and so. There is a sweet spot where one is just able to haul and any tighter and the unit self hauls. It used to be that I could lift three logs up to the top of the skidder plate and fix the choke chains on the combs , lift the plate and drive off. Now when I lift to the same point the rope just rolls off the drum before I get the chance to fix the chains. I bet you wish you hadn't responded to this issue now!!!    Are the fibre ropes any good? I haven't met anyone using them yet.

A lot of the ropes out there are of pretty soft construction and kink easily. I always use hard wire with a hemp core.Those that look almost galvanised are pretty poor. Its also important that you use the right ley, from memory r/h Laings ley is the only one really suitable for winch work.

[ESS]

The fibre ropes are very good but also very expensive, and not suitable on some ground. 

When you choker up are you leaving a reasonable tag length away from the slider? chokering tight can cause problems.

[blackeyeler]

8 minutes ago, ESS said:

r/h Laings ley

Not familiar with this term?  Your comment on tag length is interesting. I always leave a good length tag so that I can unhitch easily without having to rummage around the logs but my colleague tends to put the slider almost up to the log. Guess who's been doing most of the chokering recently?

With regard to fibre ropes, the ground we are working on is varied from heathland amid Spruce plantings taking out birch, banks muddy slopes pulling hardwoods and windblow and winch assisted directional felling. 

[ESS]

8 minutes ago, blackeyeler said:

Not familiar with this term?  Your comment on tag length is interesting. I always leave a good length tag so that I can unhitch easily without having to rummage around the logs but my colleague tends to put the slider almost up to the log. Guess who's been doing most of the chokering recently?

With regard to fibre ropes, the ground we are working on is varied from heathland amid Spruce plantings taking out birch, banks muddy slopes pulling hardwoods and windblow and winch assisted directional felling. 

r/h Laings ley is the ley or wrap of the rope.

If the chokers are set on a short chain to the slider it puts a samller angle on the rope until the logs pull into line. 

Fibre ropes no use if stone/rocks present.They are light to pull out, but personally I wouldn't go to the extra expense.

I suspect your rope is of a soft construction. With a hard wire rope even with the build up on the side of the drum a hard rope tends to roll off the wrap avoiding the problem a little. If the rope is not the correct ley it will also kink and strands separate easier.

[blackeyeler]

Many thanks for your input. I shall now have a discussion with work mate and see where we go from there.  Stay safe. Blackeyeler.

 

[openspaceman]

6 hours ago, ESS said:

r/h Laings ley is the only one really suitable for winch work.

I disagree, lang lay may be great for cranes but not much cop for winching because the outer wires are at an angle to the direction of pull. With normal right or left lay the outer wires point along the direction of travel as you pull and tend to get less contamination.

 

I tended to use 6 x 19 constructing right lay as it is generally available, the outer wires are able to take a bit of abrasion, it also has a fibre core which I think absorbs a bit of energy in the event of breakage. As such it is a bit weaker than a 7 x 19 which has a wire core. One thing about this construction is that if it gets abused some types have tiny wires between the 19 stands to fill the gap and they develop nasty spikes so should be avoided.

 

One wire I liked the feel of was the pre compacted 7 x 19 that came with Riko winches but never got to use it on my own machines. On this the outer strands are cold forged so the outer is no longer round but conforms to the outer diameter of the rope.

 

The spinning on the drum is often operator error  if the brake is correctly set, e.g. if the load is heavy and the operator releases the clutch before applying the drum brake the weight of the load dropping  spins wire off the drum and the drum continues spinning even though the rope is no longer paying out. If the wire is pulled in again it bites through the loose layers.

 

Also on most winches the adjustment for preventing overspin during payout is separate from the main band brake adjustment and is spring loaded.

[blackeyeler]

Thanks to you Openspaceman, I will take your comments into consideration. On our Igland 55 there is just a clutch lever that pushes up to engage clutch and down to release. There is no separate brake lever only a hexagonal screw to increase or decrease drag and prevent rolling on. The brake pad adjuster nuts are below the brake band and only accessible by removal of the back plate. I may have to take the unit back to our engineer for further adjustment/investigation. I usually order replacement rope from a local farm and forestry equipment supplier and they determine the rope that we get. I may tell them of your advice and see what they say. Many thanks again to all contributions.

[spuddog0507]

23 hours ago, blackeyeler said:

Not familiar with this term?  Your comment on tag length is interesting. I always leave a good length tag so that I can unhitch easily without having to rummage around the logs but my colleague tends to put the slider almost up to the log. Guess who's been doing most of the chokering recently?

With regard to fibre ropes, the ground we are working on is varied from heathland amid Spruce plantings taking out birch, banks muddy slopes pulling hardwoods and windblow and winch assisted directional felling. 

Slider next to log NO thats a big part of why your cable is coiling, when you set the chains leave about 10 links between log and slider, i dont have same winch as you mine is a Igland 4501 and there is 1 nut that you adjust the brake band with and then a external large hex nut you can fine adjust the brake,