Who Is or has done work on the HS2 project?

[Chalgravesteve]

This process is just a magnified version of any sub-contracting job with two fundamental differences:

 

The client proposes a job. Main contractor says they will do it and prices it up. Asks sub contractor A for price. Sub contractor A  subs out the job elsewhere to Sub contractor B and gets a price of £1,000.

 

Subby A then tells Main Contractor £1500, as he needs to make a profit on the job, even if he's not actually doing it.

 

Main contractor tells the client £2500 as he also needs to make a profit and he employs loads of people who shift paper in getting quotes from subbies, and needs to make more profit than the subbies A and B as a result.

 

The client flinches at the price but accepts it. 

 

The fundamental differences  with the public contracts are:

that at the very top of the tree, the client is in fact someone who has absolutely no idea about actually doing the project in the real world, and so doesn't have the ability to say "thats bullsh*t" AND 

 

when the subbies and main contractors just escalate the prices (for whatever reason) no one at the top is going to say no, you quoted this, you build it for that!

 

 

 

 

[5 shires]

45 minutes ago, Chalgravesteve said:

This process is just a magnified version of any sub-contracting job with two fundamental differences:

 

The client proposes a job. Main contractor says they will do it and prices it up. Asks sub contractor A for price. Sub contractor A  subs out the job elsewhere to Sub contractor B and gets a price of £1,000.

 

Subby A then tells Main Contractor £1500, as he needs to make a profit on the job, even if he's not actually doing it.

 

Main contractor tells the client £2500 as he also needs to make a profit and he employs loads of people who shift paper in getting quotes from subbies, and needs to make more profit than the subbies A and B as a result.

 

The client flinches at the price but accepts it. 

 

The fundamental differences  with the public contracts are:

that at the very top of the tree, the client is in fact someone who has absolutely no idea about actually doing the project in the real world, and so doesn't have the ability to say "thats bullsh*t" AND 

 

when the subbies and main contractors just escalate the prices (for whatever reason) no one at the top is going to say no, you quoted this, you build it for that!

 

 

 

 

Yes I agree how that works and is quite normal practice....but tell me this...I have over the years get requested to quote for works for a couple of housing developers who need to have trees removed and ground clearing.....now we are not talking small jobs and small numbers(nothing as big as HS2) but all the same £1’000’s of pounds worth of work but after probably doing 4/5 quotes and not getting anywhere it occurred to me that it’s just a process they go through just to get the amount of quotes they need,I have since learned over the years the same company gets most of the work no matter what price they put in(case of who you know not what you know) had another one last week to price in Worcester removal of trees for 9 new houses so religiously and being a professional I made a site visit and put my price in even though deep down I know I won’t get a siff...it’s all well and good putting in a price for these big jobs but i’am guessing it’s all ready been sorted who will get the work no matter what quotation other companies put in..if you know what I mean.?

[Chalgravesteve]

3 minutes ago, 5 shires said:

Yes I agree how that works and is quite normal practice....but tell me this...I have over the years get requested to quote for works for a couple of housing developers who need to have trees removed and ground clearing.....now we are not talking small jobs and small numbers(nothing as big as HS2) but all the same £1’000’s of pounds worth of work but after probably doing 4/5 quotes and not getting anywhere it occurred to me that it’s just a process they go through just to get the amount of quotes they need,I have since learned over the years the same company gets most of the work no matter what price they put in(case of who you know not what you know) had another one last week to price in Worcester removal of trees for 9 new houses so religiously and being a professional I made a site visit and put my price in even though deep down I know I won’t get a siff...it’s all well and good putting in a price for these big jobs but i’am guessing it’s all ready been sorted who will get the work no matter what quotation other companies put in..if you know what I mean.?

That's exactly what is happening. So, either just don't bother going to quote, or, just for the sheer hell of it, put a quote in that is stupidly cheap. If you get it, then you are now on the roster. If you don't then you have just confirmed what you knew in the first place! 

[Khriss]

On 20/01/2020 at 15:57, 5 shires said:

As the title says has anyone done or is currently doing any work on the HS2 project? Original Projected cost was £62 Billion) now costs have been recalculated to more then double at around (£102 Billion)...who are these people who run and price these big government jobs?there f—king useless,how can you be that much out?someone is making or has made an awful lot of money out of this unnecessary plan to save 10 minutes traveling.?

Exactly my point when i heard that,  " bloody get out of bed 20 mins earlier! An stop ruining the whole country side!!" was my ha'penny worth.  K

[5 shires]

18 minutes ago, Chalgravesteve said:

That's exactly what is happening. So, either just don't bother going to quote, or, just for the sheer hell of it, put a quote in that is stupidly cheap. If you get it, then you are now on the roster. If you don't then you have just confirmed what you knew in the first place! 

Get what your saying but when I started in this business over 30yrs ago I didn’t want to be known as I know a bloke who is cheap and have never deviated from that,I know you win some lose some in the normal pricing of work for mr & Mrs public...but when quoting and pricing for these big contracts/jobs a lot of guys who I know would throw there own granny in the Chipper to get it...very back stabbing process and never knowing who is your mate or not...you got to be some kind of arse licker and do as your told and I have never wanted to be put in a situation we’re i have to say yes when I want to say know...like I said when I have these jobs come in I do what I need to,site visit and put a detailed quotation together for a fair price.....you never know may be after 10 yrs I just might get lucky ?

[5 shires]

10 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Exactly my point when i heard that,  " bloody get out of bed 20 mins earlier! An stop ruining the whole country side!!" was my ha'penny worth.  K

Yep exactly.....god knows the amount of damage and destruction has been caused already and once it’s gone it’s gone.our generation has a lot to answer for and I feel sorry for my children and grandchildren and beyond.

[Khriss]

@5 shires on that point I have no children , but feel much worse fr those of you who have. I gave up on the Political and Executive behaviour of this country aftr Brexit and see no rosy future.    K  

[Matthew Storrs]

3 hours ago, 5 shires said:

Get what your saying but when I started in this business over 30yrs ago I didn’t want to be known as I know a bloke who is cheap and have never deviated from that,I know you win some lose some in the normal pricing of work for mr & Mrs public...but when quoting and pricing for these big contracts/jobs a lot of guys who I know would throw there own granny in the Chipper to get it...very back stabbing process and never knowing who is your mate or not...you got to be some kind of arse licker and do as your told and I have never wanted to be put in a situation we’re i have to say yes when I want to say know...like I said when I have these jobs come in I do what I need to,site visit and put a detailed quotation together for a fair price.....you never know may be after 10 yrs I just might get lucky ?

Hmm, I must admit if I had quoted several jobs for a customer and none had ever been accepted there would come a point when I’d say look I’ve quoted all your jobs- it seems that either A) you can’t afford me or B)have a preferred contractor and your just abusing my goodwill to provide free estimates.

i couldn’t be arsed with it myself- plenty of work out there anyway if your good at what you do why waste time chasing time wasters!

Edited January 23, 2020 by Matthew Storrs

[5 shires]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Storrs said:

Hmm, I must admit if I had quoted several jobs for a customer and none had ever been accepted there would come a point when I’d say look I’ve quoted all your jobs- it seems that either A) you can’t afford me or B)have a preferred contractor and your just abusing my goodwill to provide free estimates.

i couldn’t be arsed with it myself- plenty of work out there anyway if your good at what you do why waste time chasing time wasters!

It’s been various construction or building companies over the years...but I carry it through as a point of being professional about it...it does take time of course it does but I do it for my piece of mind that if someone has taken the time to email me over plans etc then I should do as asked and there may be a time when a new guy takes over and he may look at getting quotations in the correct manner.

[peatff]

It's in the news again. I know that's the Mail but it's on BBC and Guardian as well. It could be delayed for a decade and could take 20 years to complete and has cost £7.4 billion so far without a single piece of track being laid. I like the article in Spectator showing it as political vanity rather than something we need and asking why if it is to revitalise the North is so much being spent on Euston station.

HS2 is really designed around ministers’ lifestyles: it enables them to travel to the North to make an announcement, cut a ribbon or close a factory, and still be back at Westminster in time to vote and have a subsidised dinner. Meanwhile, the public transport which Londoners take for granted continues to be denied to the North.