Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

sounds like we should have called it "static rope technique" from the start!!

the "single" bit doesnt seem to have done us any favours

The ‘S’ is stationary...or is it stationery

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

6 hours ago, Rich Rule said:

Paul, I attended an SRT workshop a couple of years ago now.  It was organised by Noddy and Ben Rose.  To my knowledge it was to gather information from actual working climbers and how/which systems they utilise on a daily basis.

 

I was also under the impression it was funded party by the AA.  I could be wrong in that one of course.  I don’t recall anyone stating they thought two ropes would be a good idea.

 

Whatever happened to the research and did the AA/HSE actually take any notice of what was produced? Bearing in mind we were actually working climbers who used SRT on a daily basis and had done or years...  as opposed to a group of guys in orifices who hadn’t the faintest idea what goes on on a daily basis?  

 

From what I have read of the new guideline, it seems the latter of the two groups were the ones who came up with this.

 

Hi, it was funded by the AA research grant and the findings informed the Draft technical guidance which when presented to HSE was challenged by their W@H specialist. Ben was part of the demo team we pulled together for the HSE but it didn’t change their minds unfortunately  

[scotspine1]

The new HSE guidance will require 3 lines around the stem here when cutting? Is that correct? Or will it remain 2 in this scenario? 

 

 

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

6 hours ago, skyhuck said:

Not a chance, IMO, IRATA has 0 domestic market. Mrs Muggins don’t get rope access lads in to paint her house. 

 Our industries have virtually nothing in common, IMO.

In principle I agree, currently, but when the Sky TV engineer turns up to replace her Sky dish that’s a very different matter (acknowledged a company implemented rule but..)

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

4 minutes ago, scotspine1 said:

The new HSE guidance will require 3 lines around the stem here when cutting? Is that correct? Or will it remain 2 in this scenario? 

 

 

 

Can’t see how this particular situation will/can change but have to await the tech guide for definitive answers.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 hour ago, Kev Stephenson said:

As has been said before rope access has near enough zero domestic market so grouping tree work in with IRA is a big fail.    You can't get a rope access company to 'do it for cash' and I am sure the competition is much reduced or at least on a more level playing field.  Grouping tree work with rope access work is like saying all car wash places must have the same levels of training and compliance as MOT testing stations because they are working on cars. 

 

I am all for making the industry safer but which end of the industry needs this boost?  If the jobbing gardener or 'mobile tree firms' were forced out of the industry through regulation or even education of the public would general compliance and therefore accident stats improve?  While there is still the jobbing gardener who is willing to use eBay kit on a cash job at grass cutting rates domestic tree work will be price driven.  It is hard enough competing in a domestic market when VAT registered against the mobile tree firms or a team of people all registered self employed for VAT and PAYE avoidance without the addition of even more (unnecessary) training and compliance.

Hi Kevin, please understand I’m trying to put some positive aspects across because I don’t see the situation changing here. 

The level of compliance you referto, ie pan industry all aspects, is highly unlikely to happen and there will be a sector of the domestic market a compliant contractor will never be competitive in (plus they often have to charge VAT which is indicative of a higher turnover...or at least declaration of such.)

Surely if the ‘higher’ level of compliance is required in the LA / Construction / Utility etc sectors this would be a step in the right direction.

[Konstantly]

I'm interested in the rigours risk assessment as newly layed out by LANTRA within their SRWP award that allows us to use a single rope to safely work the tree. 

Can anyone shine some light on this matter? 

Cheers 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

44 minutes ago, Konstantly said:

I'm interested in the rigours risk assessment as newly layed out by LANTRA within their SRWP award that allows us to use a single rope to safely work the tree. 

Can anyone shine some light on this matter? 

Cheers 

Sorry can’t help here.

[scotspine1]

The simplest way for climbers to get round this HSE nonsense (and it's dangerous nonsense at that) is to state in your risk assessment that using two ropes when moving around the canopy will make the job take considerably longer leading to needless fatigue and excessive stress and strain on the body so for that reason when moving through/around the canopy one rope shall be used. 

 

[monkeybusiness]

1 hour ago, scotspine1 said:

The new HSE guidance will require 3 lines around the stem here when cutting? Is that correct? Or will it remain 2 in this scenario? 

 

 

 

From the pic that’s a poor example - there doesn’t appear to be any reason to climb at that stage when the working at height hierarchy is considered.