Highways 171 license

[john p]

We recently ‘got busted’ by Somerset Highways while felling some dead elms on a very quiet country lane. We had appropriate TM/signs in place, using a mewp because of adjacent phone lines.

 

Highways matey drives up asking if we’ve got a 171 and we need a road closure because there wasn’t enough room to have cones 1.2 meters from the mewp.

 

Just looked on highways website and they want £232 for the license for a £280 pound job!

 

I’m a bit concerned that not many customers are going to want to stump up that cost on a job. And now my card is marked! Curious to know if everyone applies for these licenses as a matter of course, and are your customers happy to pay?

[roseyweb]

That's cheap for a road closure, I paid £1,500 to close a road around here on Sunday. That's before I paid the TM company to put up the closure, signs and diversion.

 

sticking up traffic lights is free but you need a permit still, 

we loose a lot of work as we don't do bodge TM and usually the next week we will see the local landscaper with a transit blocking the path and raining branches in the road. 

[john p]

That's cheap for a road closure, I paid £1,500 to close a road around here on Sunday. That's before I paid the TM company to put up the closure, signs and diversion.
 
sticking up traffic lights is free but you need a permit still, 
we loose a lot of work as we don't do bodge TM and usually the next week we will see the local landscaper with a transit blocking the path and raining branches in the road. 

The road closure would be £1200, but from what he was saying, any work on the highway or adjacent to it would need a 171 at a cost of £232. So even if we were straight felling them back into the field we would still need it...

[Big J]

As I said to you the other day, it is total nonsense. Almost every sodding woodland down here is directly next to a road. 

 

Sounds like council jobsworths trying to justify their existence. 

[steve30]

It’s a good revenue earner for them, some of the fines they are dishing out now are massive.

 

[Big J]

Just Googled it and it doesn't seem to relate to tree work:

 

Section 171 of the Highways Act 1980 allows for persons to temporarily deposit building materials or other items in a street, or to make a temporary excavation, as long as they have the consent of the relevant highway authority.

If consent is refused, the person is entitled to appeal to a magistrate’s court.

The person making the deposit or excavation must comply with the directions provided by the highway authority. This can relate to the erection of traffic signs, fencing, proper lighting, and so on. If the highway authority, or relevant local authority, require it, the person must remove the obstructing items or fill in the excavation.

If the conditions are not adhered to, the person will be liable to imposed fines.

 

Consensus amongst the lorry drivers I work with seems to be that you can block the road for up to 20 minutes at a time legally. This is the only way we can get the timber off our present site as there is no loading bay and no space to put one. This is usually the case with forestry sites down here. 

 

It's impossible not to fell trees near a road in your line of work John. I can't see any legitimate reason for the council to profit from that.

[ESS]

9 hours ago, john p said:

The road closure would be £1200, but from what he was saying, any work on the highway or adjacent to it would need a 171 at a cost of £232. So even if we were straight felling them back into the field we would still need it...

I have worked on several FC sites in recent months adjacent to roads. They insist on TM for any felling work,..mechanical or manual up to 2 tree lengths from road. Two reds whilst felling takes place.

[Toad]

A s.171 license isn't quite correct, as Big J says, it is usually for excavations on the highway, bit in the case of Somerset Highways it might be the most appropriate license they have decided on for Arb work/tree felling. We would use a building materials in the highway license where I was. The s.171 license will require the applicant to prove they have insurance and the traffic management qualifications to allow them to be on the road and the permit will allow the occupation of the road to be recorded properly so there won't be clashes with other roadworks or diversion routes.

[john p]

A s.171 license isn't quite correct, as Big J says, it is usually for excavations on the highway, bit in the case of Somerset Highways it might be the most appropriate license they have decided on for Arb work/tree felling. We would use a building materials in the highway license where I was. The s.171 license will require the applicant to prove they have insurance and the traffic management qualifications to allow them to be on the road and the permit will allow the occupation of the road to be recorded properly so there won't be clashes with other roadworks or diversion routes.

Yeah, I think that’s the case here, on their website it’s says a 171 is required for any work on or adajacent to the highway,

[Toad]

46 minutes ago, ESS said:

I have worked on several FC sites in recent months adjacent to roads. They insist on TM for any felling work,..mechanical or manual up to 2 tree lengths from road. Two reds whilst felling takes place.

That would be what I would have asked for. 2 way lights in all red is a great alternative to a closure for a short period of time.