Servicing a neglected farmi winch

[drinksloe]

It will most likely depend where u live.

 

Is there a local farmi dealer? 

Or decent forestry or agri engineers near u?

 

As others have said I've certainly never heard off much forestry gear being lolered, esp when u see some of the old counties and winches etc being used on many estates.

[spuddog0507]

On 15/08/2019 at 23:16, david wood said:

at very least there should be a loler ticket on it, proper gaurds on the pto shaft etc.

 

so maybe if theres a loler inspector near you get them round to view and assist with what needs to bring into use.  least then its up to a fairly high standard.

 

All forestry lifting cranes are loler exempt so i cant see a winch needing a loler cert, As loler regulate lifting and loading a winch is pulling so why would it need one, worked in forestry for a fair time now and never heard of this one before

[david wood]

14 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

All forestry lifting cranes are loler exempt so i cant see a winch needing a loler cert, As loler regulate lifting and loading a winch is pulling so why would it need one, worked in forestry for a fair time now and never heard of this one before

have to admit i dont see logic other than whichever insurance company covers you/employees sets the terms you stick to, and thats it.     had discusion with inspector once about winch lift/pull and his point was when winching the butt plate is down so pulling, second you go to drive off, ie skid sticks out you lift winch off deck and its a lifting operation , all be it a foot or so.

 

does it suck - yes without doubt

 

now imagine you run a crane and winch for years, do some greasing and maybe replace bits when well and truly knackered/wet day maintence time filler....

 

go out and either lift a good and heavy stick or pull to max of winch and something gives under full load...trip home via hospital if lucky!

 

how would you feel arguing definitions with insurers/hse/relatives then or know that a few hundred quid a year on bits however annoying may have prevented, or maybe time was just up.

 

 

[Svts]

My understanding is forwarder cranes are exempt if used for its intended purpose. Lifting timber in the wood and stacking roadside. The operator should be in inside a protective structure and no other persons should be inside the clearly marked exclusion zone. It's only outside of this scenario that the waters get muddy. Arb work could be considered outside of this intended use. 

Interesting point about winches once but plate is lifted. Never had a loler cert for a three point link. However competency and training comes into play here and not putting yourself in harms way. Puwer is still applicable so equipment should be good order anyhow. 

[drinksloe]

It just seems to be mission creep from the insurers, if everyone agrees to it not long before it will become the norm.

I would mibbee be looking for new insurers

 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for mantianing machines properly ( and a pet hate is using somelses machine when not be looked after and simple lack off maintenance makes my job harder)

Winches have been used in forestry for a long time long before loler was ever thought off.

Common sense has to be more important than any ticket, as with climbing gear it could be lolered 1 day and damaged the next are u really going to wait 6 month to fix/replace cos ur ticket says it's OK??

[spuddog0507]

7 hours ago, david wood said:

have to admit i dont see logic other than whichever insurance company covers you/employees sets the terms you stick to, and thats it.     had discusion with inspector once about winch lift/pull and his point was when winching the butt plate is down so pulling, second you go to drive off, ie skid sticks out you lift winch off deck and its a lifting operation , all be it a foot or so.

 

does it suck - yes without doubt

 

now imagine you run a crane and winch for years, do some greasing and maybe replace bits when well and truly knackered/wet day maintence time filler....

 

go out and either lift a good and heavy stick or pull to max of winch and something gives under full load...trip home via hospital if lucky!

 

how would you feel arguing definitions with insurers/hse/relatives then or know that a few hundred quid a year on bits however annoying may have prevented, or maybe time was just up.

 

 

i get your point, but if machinery is maintained correctly and not neglected it will give service for many years, there are far to many of these people in this day and age who just say F - -k it i cant be arsed i will grease it, check oil and water tomorrow and they say it again the day after and the day after that and thats when things start to go wrong OK not on that day but at some point, all my machinery is checked daily for oil and water and greased every other, and my view on that is that oil & filters along with a few tubes of grease are very cheap compared to down time replacing metal parts, the guy who originally posted this thread dont sound to expieranced to me and the best addvise i could give is to go and do a NPTC training course and ascessment on winch use and i am sure he will learn plenty, like does it need a loler cert ???? no it dosent HSE state it dont and on the HSE website has been there for many years for every one to read, several years ago i asked a training organisation to do some training and ascessments for a couple of guys and i was told that the forwarding trailer would need a loler cert, when i said no it dont, he argued with me that he did and it wasent very happy when i asked him if he actually knew what he was doing with in his job, the price for training and ascessment per person was £1160 + VAT per person for 5 days and we supplied the eqipment ,,

[Khriss]

First job is to get a manual fr the winch ( yr PuWer 98 regs) get serviced by competent person an log it in a book with yr manual. Number n tag cable fr yr LOler 98. Not a horror of a task that? Farm fitter at yr local could do that. Coat of paint n yr done.  K

[Svts]

1 hour ago, Khriss said:

First job is to get a manual fr the winch ( yr PuWer 98 regs) get serviced by competent person an log it in a book with yr manual. Number n tag cable fr yr LOler 98. Not a horror of a task that? Farm fitter at yr local could do that. Coat of paint n yr done.  K

Not sure insurance would accept an agri fitters cable inspection. That's if it is really necessary at all depending on application. Puwer records should suffice if used for its intended purpose. If breaking cables are a problem then the gear is either shagged or being used outside of its limits. Competency and experience when planning and executing work more of an issue maybe. 

[Svts]

9 hours ago, david wood said:

have to admit i dont see logic other than whichever insurance company covers you/employees sets the terms you stick to, and thats it.     had discusion with inspector once about winch lift/pull and his point was when winching the butt plate is down so pulling, second you go to drive off, ie skid sticks out you lift winch off deck and its a lifting operation , all be it a foot or so.

 

does it suck - yes without doubt

 

now imagine you run a crane and winch for years, do some greasing and maybe replace bits when well and truly knackered/wet day maintence time filler....

 

go out and either lift a good and heavy stick or pull to max of winch and something gives under full load...trip home via hospital if lucky!

 

how would you feel arguing definitions with insurers/hse/relatives then or know that a few hundred quid a year on bits however annoying may have prevented, or maybe time was just up.

 

 

If your crane fails and you get hurt you couldn't of been operating it from the approved position within the protective structure or you guarding is defective(puwer). Loler is only good at the point of inspection it comes down to the operator to confirm its fitness for work before using on the day. And using it within its limits. As timber has no label giving its weight and the terrain can vary greatly not sure it can be an exact science like regular crane operation. 

I find the what if, what if, what if thing annoying. Competency, experience and a sensible attitude to matainance and operation should ensure you'll go home at the end of the day in one piece. No amount of box ticking and scaremongering from insurers backed up by trainers churning out poorly trained operators will change that. 

 

[Khriss]

I just mean just  the winch mate. New cable should do fr Loler98 for however long the job takes. They ain't dear fr a skidding winch- wire rope shop is cheapest. My Skyline ropes from there 500m fr 500squid. K