Top-handled chainsaws: appropriate use and management

[skyhuck]

I was cutting and holding, I know, I know.

It was a pretty big Beech, no drop zone, wanted all the brash off that day. Was doing pretty well, was about 3.15 in the afternoon, maybe I was a bit tired, I don’t really know. Don’t really know what happened, I remember the impact, I hit the bone. I think I either touched my wrist cutting the branch off or going back for the next one. Pretty sure the chain was just running down. I remember looking round to see where the branch had gone, but I must have thrown it, because i’d not dropped on the garage roof below me. I remember thinking “shit this is bad” and hoping it was a dream, but no such luck. Then I checked how bad the bleeding was and decided I was fine to get down without  doing anything with it.

 This was just over 4 weeks ago, been climbing for 25 years, never cut myself before.

 I had cut two tendons, which were repaired, and was told to wear a splint for 6 weeks, but my family’s life is pretty much dependent on me doing stuff, not just earning, but also stoking a boiler that heats our home and cutting the logs for it etc. About 10 days after the op, I was in the yard sorting out some timber and I manage to pop the tendon repairs. But I lost very little movement in my thumb, it was same as after the cut but before the op. Went back for phisyo and told them i’d Popped the repair and she was convinced I had just stretched it and was happy with the the movement I had. And that I needed to keep the split on for another 4 weeks.

 Any way day after I stopped using the splint and went back to work. Stupid I know. But I needed to finish the tree, it was driving me bonkers, plus the weather was so nice. Worked for 10 days, then went back for another physio appointment. Took me a while to find the splint, put it on. Did not tell them i’d been working, they were very happy with it and told me to keep resting.

 Go to see the surgeon next week.

 

 I think I’ve tried to lessen the seriousness of my accident in my own head by getting back to work sooner, plus getting out on my mountain bike, which I love. I’m probably an idiot, but I think mentaly it’s really help me.

[Jcarbor]

May 1st 2012, I got bitten. Had a shut down on the edge of a village, went up the back of the tree to put my main line in and cut a route for the rigging gear. Power company turned off the lines and was good to go, clearing a couple more branches before installing the block,so on my main line and using my strop cutting one handed at full extension and with my left arm bracing myself also full extension. With in a blink I found my saw in the side of my neck but took a few seconds to realise what had happened, saw my arm looked pretty bad but couldn’t actually feel anything, pulled the saw from my neck which was literally one tooth caught under my skin and then got my self to the ground where my mate thought it was my neck but then showed him the claret that was p*****g out of my arm. Before I new it the paramedics were there and I was getting smashed with morphine , and still couldn’t feel any, a mixture of shock and adrenaline probably. Was in hospital for just over a week, and managed to cut through 60% of muscle and a tendon. Was off work for 3 months and my other half was heavily pregnant with our first so really bad timing. I still have no feeling from my scare to my thumb and can’t fully bend my wrist right back. At the end of the day I was bloody lucky that my arm to the impact rather than my neck so feel really lucky. It was an absolute freak accident me hitting a knot in the limb I was cutting and getting that kick back. As a subby of many years I’ve caught myself probably like many others holding and cutting and it always sends a shiver down my spine. Unfortunately my mate who I had known for years didn’t have employers liability but I thought he would come good and help me out but didn’t get a penny out of him and I’ve never heard from him since. I still climb as it’s all I know and climb the same then as I do now, a good working position in tree is not only safe but can be more productive.

Bloody hell thats an awful incident and I hope you carry on improving from it. Whats truly awful is you were working for a mate with no ELI, thats bloody criminal of him, it pisses me off that certain individuals in this game get away with doing the job with the minimal of cost such as insurance and no training, its pure greed and totally dishonest, it make my blood boil.

[Alex O]

Bloody hell thats an awful incident and I hope you carry on improving from it. Whats truly awful is you were working for a mate with no ELI, thats bloody criminal of him, it pisses me off that certain individuals in this game get away with doing the job with the minimal of cost such as insurance and no training, its pure greed and totally dishonest, it make my blood boil.

Sure is buddy, he said when I go back to help him I don’t need to climb everyday, I said if you have the insurance in place then yes but I can’t afford another 3 months off, that’s when he got funny with me and then tried to convince me to use my insurance to claim on. I only had it as I was doing the odd jobs at weekends and had other guys working for me. But I did honestly think he would come good as I didn’t want to drag him , his wife and kids through it all. But believe it or not 2012 was a good year, Chelsea won the champions league, my first boy was born and I’m still alive [emoji6].

[skyhuck]

2 minutes ago, Alex O said:

Sure is buddy, he said when I go back to help him I don’t need to climb everyday, I said if you have the insurance in place then yes but I can’t afford another 3 months off, that’s when he got funny with me and then tried to convince me to use my insurance to claim on. I only had it as I was doing the odd jobs at weekends and had other guys working for me. But I did honestly think he would come good as I didn’t want to drag him , his wife and kids through it all. But believe it or not 2012 was a good year, Chelsea won the champions league, my first boy was born and I’m still alive .

 

 Why was he subbing for lecky work without the correct insurance?

 

 IMO he is very lucky you did not sue the arse off him.

 

 

[Mick Dempsey]

8 hours ago, Alex O said:

May 1st 2012, I got bitten. Had a shut down on the edge of a village, went up the back of the tree to put my main line in and cut a route for the rigging gear. Power company turned off the lines and was good to go, clearing a couple more branches before installing the block,so on my main line and using my strop cutting one handed at full extension and with my left arm bracing myself also full extension. With in a blink I found my saw in the side of my neck but took a few seconds to realise what had happened, saw my arm looked pretty bad but couldn’t actually feel anything, pulled the saw from my neck which was literally one tooth caught under my skin and then got my self to the ground where my mate thought it was my neck but then showed him the claret that was p*****g out of my arm. Before I new it the paramedics were there and I was getting smashed with morphine , and still couldn’t feel any, a mixture of shock and adrenaline probably. Was in hospital for just over a week, and managed to cut through 60% of muscle and a tendon. Was off work for 3 months and my other half was heavily pregnant with our first so really bad timing. I still have no feeling from my scare to my thumb and can’t fully bend my wrist right back. At the end of the day I was bloody lucky that my arm to the impact rather than my neck so feel really lucky. It was an absolute freak accident me hitting a knot in the limb I was cutting and getting that kick back. As a subby of many years I’ve caught myself probably like many others holding and cutting and it always sends a shiver down my spine. Unfortunately my mate who I had known for years didn’t have employers liability but I thought he would come good and help me out but didn’t get a penny out of him and I’ve never heard from him since. I still climb as it’s all I know and climb the same then as I do now, a good working position in tree is not only safe but can be more productive.

Glad you’re ok, and you raise an interesting issue, not about one handing, that’s boring and been turned over again and again.

 

So you were a sub contract climber for this guy? You supply an invoice and get paid a chèque from which you pay your taxes etc. From the outside I would have thought that insurances on injury should be your responsibility.

 

If I’ve misread or misunderstood happy to be corrected.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Mick Dempsey

[skyhuck]

2 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Glad you’re ok, and you raise an interesting issue, not about one handing, that’s boring and been through again and again.

 

So you were a sub contract climber for this guy? You supply an invoice and paid a chèque from which you pay your taxes etc. From the outside I would have thought that insurances on injury should be your responsibility.

 

If I’ve misread or misunderstood happyto be corrected.

I hear you Mick, but the amount a subby climber make is far less than the firm who are doing the job, so IMO the firm who's name is on the invoice should have the correct insurance in place.

[Mick Dempsey]

Shoulda woulda coulda.

 

What’s right or moral is not at issue, what’s the legal situation?

[Ratman]

I hear you Mick, but the amount a subby climber make is far less than the firm who are doing the job, so IMO the firm who's name is on the invoice should have the correct insurance in place.

You cant contract out liability! If your doing a job for “joe blogs” and you get hurt or cause injury to someone under joe blogs’s command (which you are as your doing the works for him even as a subby with your own insurances etc) then he is responsible for the outcome.

 

IMO you were the greater friend of the two by not perusing..... 3 months off work with no pay, i’d of chased for something. Glad your mended and back in full swing.

[skyhuck]

4 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Shoulda woulda coulda.

 

What’s right or moral is not at issue, what’s the legal situation?

From a legal point of view, if your name is on the invoice the buck stops with you.

 

H&S legislation is very different to HMRC legislation, just because you are self-employed from a tax point of view, does not mean the firm you are working for does not have a "duty of care".

 

I've had EL insurance for decades, ever since my first self-employed goundie.

 

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

12 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

 

What’s right or moral is not at issue, what’s the legal situation?

Something of a grey area potentially, as I understand it, and hence under the scheme we make it (EL insurance) mandatory regardless. Tbh I think it would be a legal case to determine the situation but I think it would be a civil rather than statute case, i.e. EL Compulsory Insurance Act.