House heating that isn't wood fueled?

[Big J]

Most of us here heat our houses with wood fuel, or at least partially so. 

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm sick of the sight of the stuff, and I've often reflected on the fact that it would be better to simply sell the wood and use that to fund alternate, less labour intensive methods of house heating. For instance, I'm most of the way through cutting and splitting 15 tonnes of ash for the house and I'm struggling, motivationally. It will end up as best part of 45 cube (it was quite dry coming in) and it will last us almost 2 years, but it'll have taken three days to process and I could have sold it at roadside for £800.

 

So when factoring in my time (3 days at £400/day if I'm on the forwarder) and the haulage (£200), I'm £2200 down. And then factor in the labour involved in barrowing in the wood and feeding the fire and you're probably at about £3k for 2 years heating. 

 

That buys a lot of heating oil.

 

Anyway, my question is, if you had to heat your house (off grid, so gas isn't an option) without wood, what would you choose? We're trying to find land to build at the moment, so it's a consideration for us. I like a warm house (22-23c living spaces, 18c bedrooms) too.

 

 

[difflock]

"J" You are 100% correct, and your postulation reflects my critique of our (now redundant) logwood fired boiler.

And I probably talked more people out of heating with wood, than I ever encouraged.

This despite my limitless free firewood only a field-length away.

I.e. I should have sold the wood to (more than) pay for the kero needed instead.

However I still rate a decent logburner located within the living space.

BUT

To leap ahead, surely take a look at the Nth European/Scandavian model, and build a well insulated open plan dwelling with a(more) centrally located wood-burning stove.

And only use it when needed.

Or install underfloor supplied by a groundsource heat pump.

Marcus

Edited December 29, 2018 by difflock

[Woodworks]

Can't fault or GSHP. I run it at a lowish temp and top up the heat with the wood burner if we feel chilly. It does our hot water and heating and has been faultless since installing which must be nearly 10 years ago. No servicing required either. Only suitable for a well-insulated house though but that should not be a problem with a new build. Alternatively just spend more on insulation and not need a heating system at all passive house style.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Woodworks

[Big J]

8 minutes ago, difflock said:

"J" You are 100% correct, and your postulation reflects my critique of our (now redundant) logwood fired boiler.

And I probably talked more people out of heating with wood, than I ever encouraged.

This despite my limitless free firewood only a field-length away.

I.e. I should have sold the wood to (more than) pay for the kero needed instead.

However I still rate a decent logburner located within the living space.

BUT

To leap ahead, surely take a look at the Nth European/Scandavian model, and build a well insulated open plan dwelling with a(more) centrally located wood-burning stove.

And only use it when needed.

Or install underfloor supplied by a groundsource heat pump.

Marcus

In the various iterations of our future house build (it gets discussed a lot. My wife is an architect and I've always had a keen interest) the heating has evolved from a centrally located wood stove to external biomass boiler and underfloor heating to "I can't be bothered with woodfuel, what are the alternatives!?!"

 

2 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Can't fault or GSHP. I run it at a lowish temp and top up the heat with the wood burner if we feel chilly. It does our hot water and heating and has been faultless since installing. No servicing required either. Only suitable for a well-insulated house though but that should not be a problem with a new build. Alternatively just spend more on insulation and not need a heating system at all passive house style.

 

We don't want to do a passive house. It's Kathryn's area of expertise and there are a multitude of issues with passive standard houses and indoor air quality. I'd rather have something that's a step or two down in terms of insulation, requiring some heating and with better internal air quality. 

 

I do like the idea of a GSHP, but I imagine they aren't cheap to install? 

[difflock]

Exactly the same way as I have always run our kero heated underfloor, only there for background/baseload heat, the living space temperature being "tweeked" by the wood burning stove.

The rest of the house can be colder(15-18deg)

Net result was that a 2250l fill of kero lasted us near 2 years, in a large 1995 built house, built to the then  only moderate insulation standards.

Big "J"

Bloody Hell, you got an intelligent wife, my (Astrophysist model) wife always berates sealed passive house design for being positively unhealthy.

And your architect wife agrees, I like that!

Btw

Smelly arsed dogs(and husband?) have nowt to do with my wifes firmly held opinion.

Cheers

Marcus

Edited December 29, 2018 by difflock

[Woodworks]

1 minute ago, Big J said:

I

 

We don't want to do a passive house. It's Kathryn's area of expertise and there are a multitude of issues with passive standard houses and indoor air quality. I'd rather have something that's a step or two down in terms of insulation, requiring some heating and with better internal air quality. 

 

I do like the idea of a GSHP, but I imagine they aren't cheap to install? 

1

I am guessing she doesn't like MVHR? What's the problem with it? Seen comment from those with it who would never want to not have it again as it brings it lots of fresh but warmed air. 

 

A GSHP does not need to be crazy money but I did do all the install which undoubtedly saved a few bob. Think the unit was £3600 which is the GSHP and your hot water tank all in one and that is all plumbed in. Didn't have buffer tank to keep it simple and more efficient. UFH which is basically a prerequisite with a GSHP  again was self-installed and around £1500 for all the materials. A few hundred meters of pipe in the field which was around £1.50 a meter and a digger for a day and I backfilled. I have heard of some crazy prices being charged which was undoubtedly brought on by profiteering around the RHI. 

[topchippyles]

Under floor heating which will give an even source of heat through out the house,Each area can be zoned so if it get to warm it can be turned down or off,You could go down the route of solar panels or a big option is a biomass boiler which you can get huge grants for and a good return for green usage,Very worth while looking into and why not go both.

[Big J]

Just now, Woodworks said:

I am guessing she doesn't like MVHR? What's the problem with it? Seen comment from those with it who would never want to not have it again as it brings it lots of fresh but warmed air. 

 

 

MVHR has been fairly widespread on the Continent for years now and whilst there is a large market for the new installations, there isn't one for the replacement filters. This means people are living in houses with air that is being filtered through old, potentially mouldy filters creating more health issues than they solve. 

 

I just don't think that passive standard is worth the extra outlay in our climate (mild, wet) and a passive standard house won't stay warm enough in winter to be comfortable for me (17c is the average on the passive standard house Kathryn's practice did). Heating it beyond 17c is fraught with difficulty as you'll easily overheat yourself.

[topchippyles]

Pal of mine up in the brecon becons runs 2 houses via a biomass boiler and has the boiler and hot water tank fitted around 50 metres away from the houses in his barn where he cuts and mills all his timber,Its all piped under ground to the house and he feeds it all right by where he work so cutting out all the labour back and forth.

[Big J]

5 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

Pal of mine up in the brecon becons runs 2 houses via a biomass boiler and has the boiler and hot water tank fitted around 50 metres away from the houses in his barn where he cuts and mills all his timber,Its all piped under ground to the house and he feeds it all right by where he work so cutting out all the labour back and forth.

That had been my plan with our prospective build. Biomass boiler in the machinery barn to keep all the mess out there, but it doesn't address the issue that it's usually more economical to just sell the timber.