Petzl ASAP or DMM Catch in the tree

[john meehan]

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the falls have been down to weak regrowth attachment points failing. Fountains constantly revisit the same trees again and again and again and then only cut the smallest amount the contract will allow off to do the work as cheaply as possible. They should be aiming to fell and subsequently replace more trees - it would be safer than sending climbers back up badly topped/sided carbuncles year after year IMO, no matter how many times the oppos are tied in. 

I think the aim long term is to use a MEWP at every opportunity. There is some bad trees though.

I do think most things that go pair shaped are human error, people rush not paying attention. Selecting a bad anchor etc.

[Si Jo Tee]

12 hours ago, Gaz-exRM said:

I’ve had to do it on Network rail. Two anchors too two SRT lines. Climbing on one and the other as back up. I just used an auto block. Bit OTT for me. All the years in the RM in the mountains with commando units we hardly had any accidents and no deaths on single rope.

Gaz-exRM, who is it at Network Rail that is asking you to climb with two anchors?

[stihlmadasever]

Cant you use a long lanyard as an srt anchor with the usual ddrt as main anchor point?

Double tie in is a ball ache.

I have been told that some arb training bodies are now insisting on candidates climbing on both ends of the rope at all times for cs 38 and 39.

No need for it imo if you chose your anchor point wisley

 

[mawsonarb]

I’ve had to do it on Network rail. Two anchors too two SRT lines. Climbing on one and the other as back up. I just used an auto block. Bit OTT for me. All the years in the RM in the mountains with commando units we hardly had any accidents and no deaths on single rope.

Let it go man...let it go....

[john meehan]

Cant you use a long lanyard as an srt anchor with the usual ddrt as main anchor point?
Double tie in is a ball ache.
I have been told that some arb training bodies are now insisting on candidates climbing on both ends of the rope at all times for cs 38 and 39.
No need for it imo if you chose your anchor point wisley
 

It the two anchors at all times thing basically you need three ways of attaching yourself so two are always in use.

I spoke to Skyland today and they think a Petzl ASAP will be about the best thing out of what’s available as it’s basically free running and uses centrifugal force to lock in the event of a fall.

The whole thing really comes from human error. It’s not so much about dodgy anchors as people changing over with out stripping in. If you have three anchors on the go you will always have two attached.

[monkeybusiness]

1 minute ago, john meehan said:

It the two anchors at all times thing basically you need three ways of attaching yourself so two are always in use.

I spoke to Skyland today and they think a Petzl ASAP will be about the best thing out of what’s available as it’s basically free running and uses centrifugal force to lock in the event of a fall.

The whole thing really comes from human error. It’s not so much about dodgy anchors as people changing over with out stripping in. If you have three anchors on the go you will always have two attached.

Why does it seem to happen with such relative frequency on that contract when compared to elsewhere? Time pressure? Inexperienced operatives? Too experienced/complacent operatives? Is there a drug/alcohol culture amongst the workforce? Long hours with a lot of travelling leading to tiredness? Too many hoops to jump through so corners are cut when nobody is looking? Climbers having to use different work methods/systems that they aren't necessarily familiar with leading to mistakes being made? Poor/inadequate PPE stipulations leading to lack of proper control of work tools/karabiner function/fatigue etc? Hazard reporting not being acted upon?

It isn't that large a contract in reality, and yet there appears to have been continuous problems with people falling out of trees/getting injured in various ways. There seems to be something very wrong somewhere - it would be interesting to know exactly what and why. 

[Joe Newton]

16 minutes ago, john meehan said:

It the two anchors at all times thing basically you need three ways of attaching yourself so two are always in use.

I spoke to Skyland today and they think a Petzl ASAP will be about the best thing out of what’s available as it’s basically free running and uses centrifugal force to lock in the event of a fall.

The whole thing really comes from human error. It’s not so much about dodgy anchors as people changing over with out stripping in. If you have three anchors on the go you will always have two attached.

So it's not best practice that needs revising, but employee's disregard for it. 

 

Typical bureaucratic bullshit. 

[woody paul]

Has this been bought about be bad anchor point when accessing tree for first time via rope installed by throw line. When limb can not be inspected closely.

[Guest]

On 09/07/2018 at 12:23, Si Jo Tee said:

Gaz-exRM, who is it at Network Rail that is asking you to climb with two anchors?

It was 7 years ago but if you want to know I’ll ask my old boss.

[Guest]

On 09/07/2018 at 06:06, john meehan said:

 

 

I’ve been thinking about two srt lines,
I’ve stopped using srt at the min because we can’t use a throw line and once I’d climbed up double rope I tend to stick with it.

What’s an auto block? Is that like the ASAP type thing?

Cheers mate

 

 

No it’s just a rope hitch that moves easily until it’s under tension.