Rules for CS30 etc. refreshers/retakes?

[Rich Rule]

1 hour ago, Ian C said:

 

One of my lads did it last year , one day health and safety course then touch screen test and a green labourers card for 32 quid, no one says you have to have a skills card, 4 of us have the green card and never have a problem on sites, they never sk for nptc either

Am sure it will change though as the training industry want to make it s lucrative as possible!

 

Really, we did a 1 day health and safety course last year.  It was called a ROLO course.  Call BALI and ask them for the price of a course local to you. 

 

It was a damn site more than 32 quid. 

 

 

[Ian C]

Really, we did a 1 day health and safety course last year.  It was called a ROLO course.  Call BALI and ask them for the price of a course local to you. 
 
It was a damn site more than 32 quid. 
 
 

Rich the 32 quid was fir a card, the h n s 1 day course was 120 quid nd the test es 17 quid the just send off fir a green card

[Stuart Phillips]

On ‎14‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 19:09, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

I missed that Kevin (or did I, having just re-read it.) However my post was in a general context as it's often a mis-interpreted issue is refresher training. But, as you say, some organisations, including BALI / CSCS and FISA, interpret it in a literal sense and we are currently in discussions with them to try to negotiate acceptance of other, evidence based options, including 'in-house'...not getting very far so far tho

 

Best regards n hope you're well (BTW x2 Cornwall 'specific' ArbACs now )

Paul  

The continuing problem with the whole system is the desire to evidence continued 'competence'.  The initial qualification doesn't really do it that well and with many of the refreshers out there , so long as you turn up, you can get a "Fred Flange has attended a refresher course covering..." certificate from the trainer, regardless of how good or otherwise the work is.

An evidence based option, like the old blue book, for both the initial assessment and then continued to show that the user is maintaining their proficiency could be a good route.  

[Jonny69]

Every time we attend construction sites I am asked to show a CSCS cards. We then get the NPTC cards out, some photocopying and muttering happens whilst drinking tea. Then the trees get felled. Completely pointless and I refuse to comply on principle, unless the money was right then the course would have to be done.  

 

The idea of Health and safety courses is lovely. As is refresher training, why can't I get someone to come out on site for a day. Watch the climbing, chipping, rigging, saw use, felling, stump grinding etc of everyone on site. This would be the assessment for our refresher training. sign us all off in one go and done for 5 years. I'm sure most people could muster the spirit to work to NPTC spec for at least an hour, which would be enough to show working practices are still correct. 

 

Then in the afternoon he/she can teach us some first aid training/aerial rescue practice/change the oil in a machine or something else that might come in useful. 

 

 

[Stuart Phillips]

A quick update on this one.

I have sat through two working group meetings on the topic of refreshers in the last couple of weeks.  The first run by BALI with an eye on the requirements for the LISS/CSCS cards, and the second run by us at Lantra, as a part of our normal product review and revision process.

Some interesting and useful things came out, not least from the representative of the HSE that attended. 

There is an expectation that some form of skills refreshing will take place ( in line with the guidance in PUWER and the ACOP).  The need for refresher training should be on a 'risk based' basis.  The idea of only ever refreshing the 'highest' certificate held doesn't really hold water.  Better to look at one or more elements that make up the majority of the work being done (e.g. felling to 380) and then doing something windblow, if identified as an issue, when its needed. 

The refresher is not a case of repeating the original training course again; for example the instructor might skip chainsaw maintenance altogether as they will know very quickly into running some felling as to whether the learner has maintained their saw or not.  The refresher should also add value.  That is to say that as well as confirming the learner is still operating safely etc. there needs to be an element of updating.

The element of assessment (discussed earlier in this tread) came up, as it gives confidence to the learner, their employer and their client(s) that they are operating appropriately. 

[benedmonds]

20 hours ago, Stuart Phillips said:

I have sat through two working group meetings on the topic of refreshers in the last couple of weeks.  The first run by BALI with an eye on the requirements for the LISS/CSCS cards, and the second run by us at Lantra, as a part of our normal product review and revision process.

 

So are the people discussing and"deciding" the industry best practice in refresher courses are Lantra and BALI, both companies/training providers who have an interest in making refresher training regular compulsory and expensive..  Shouldn't the industry decide what is best and then the training providers develop refreshers courses to meet the industries needs, rather then the training providers deciding what meets their needs and excepting industry to pay for it...

[Stuart Phillips]

You make it sound like there's a conspiracy in play here. 

BALI, as far as I can see it, are following 'best practice' as set down by the HSE's ICOP for PUWER.  They don't run refreshers and make no financial gain from refreshers.

Lantra will review and revise products, including training courses and qualifications, at regular intervals to ensure that they continue to be of value to the industry.  Rather than trying to 'decide' on what constitutes industry best practice, its more a case of trying to decipher what would be best practice and then shaping the products being offered accordingly.  To do that we end up taking to representatives from organisations such as the HSE, Arb Assoc, RFS, FISA, Forestry Commission and to employers.  We also speak to training providers and instructors to ensure that what we come up with is deliverable. 

 

If, on the other hand, its a case of individuals and companies deciding that they do not need to undertake refresher training of any type, that's up to them.  They are always the folk in the best position to know their own needs, and will be the people who have to defend that position in the case of an accident.