Free will or lack of.......

[the village idiot]

1 hour ago, WesD said:

I’m still 98% with you, our brains/computers I can agree for the most part are automated, in meditation I can see there is a lot that goes on however for an output to stick it needs an input, let’s use a noise again if you hear something your brain will piece together what it thinks it’s heard and predict what has happened all with your eyes still shut so you minds eye let’s say tells you it was a car driving down the street probably too fast going off the sound (so far all automated) What then remembers your meditating and pulls you back to that breath?

 

What tells you to remember we are meditating and to leave your thoughts for the breath?

Great question.

 

This one came up for me too when I started meditating but not so soon!

The brain tells you that you have lost focus on the breath. You can't choose when it does and this is why sometimes you are lost in thought for seconds, sometimes minutes. The brain 'knows' at the time it is supposed to be meditating, but it is so automatically unruly and unskilled that any other automatic set of firings (caused by something like the car noise) wil automatically take centre stage in your concious experience.

 

By continuing to (again automatically) return itself to the breath, the brain teaches itself to do it more readily. The result being more concious experience of being with the breath.

 

After some time with meditation practice the brain 'teaches' itself that it is a lunatic. 'You' experience this process played out in conciousness (the chilled out watcher that is you). All we fundamentally are is non-affecting, passive awareness. Knowing this connects us absolutely to every other concious being on the planet. We are all just conciousness! It's the ultimate freak out of all time.

 

It is almost impossibly difficult to internalise the fact that EVERYTHING is automatic, and even more difficult to explain! 

Edited December 31, 2017 by the village idiot

[the village idiot]

It fantastically tricky to square these insights with what we experience our existence to be. But when it clicks, it REALLY clicks. This is what Sam Harris is referring to as 'secular spirtuality'. You can reach these life reforming dawnings and experience them without having to tie youself up in knots trying to defend the indefensible (all religions created to date).

 

I completely respect your stance on finding out for yourself before being influenced by video's etc, but it can be truly helpful, and you are reading my posts!

 

Sam Harris is a fantastically clear thinker. He has a degree in philosophy and a PhD in neurosciene, along with having had 30 years meditation practice. I am a university drop out with an NPTC ticket in felling small trees and a 10mtr underwater swimming certificate!

 

If you can bring yourself to, I highly recommend watching the video in the Brit girls-fat thread that you so rightly removed us from!

Edited December 31, 2017 by the village idiot

[Vespasian]

Now looking at Carl Gustav Jung..  I don't expect to get much of anything he says but I expect a few crumbs to fall from his table..

 

 

Education is a life long journey...

[the village idiot]

4 minutes ago, Vespasian said:

Now looking at Carl Gustav Jung..  I don't expect to get much of anything he says but I expect a few crumbs to fall from his table..

 

 

Education is a life long journey...

Great stuff, let us know how you get on.

[Vespasian]

6 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Great stuff, let us know how you get on.

Will do.. 

 

[Mesterh]

On 29/12/2017 at 02:05, the village idiot said:

It's a funny one. On some levels it isn't important, on others it is.

 

Some people who reject free will outright think that we should pretend it is real anyway. Some think that by rejecting it totally we can improve society. Still others think that civilisation will fall apart.

 

I usually take a stance with things like this that we should always accept what is true (if we can find out what is) and adjust in the best way possible to the implications.

 

Others may differ!

I think I must differ as I could see some serious negatives. Not being able to take account of our actions doesn't bode well I think.

I dun think wet have s choice

 

Anyway, I would like to say have a great new year but deep down you already know if you will or not.

 

 

[Mortimer Firewood]

Been some great commentsVideo so far if I’m honest a little surprised and happy to see who’s posting. 

Now I like to think I’m a critical free thinker!! I’ve used Mindfulness to help me with a lot of negatives in my life with great success. 

I believe we have free Will in some aspects of our lives but not others  complete lack of free will does not make sense I’d be happy to be proved wrong. 

The way I see it is we’re all on a journey the destination is all ready chosen we just get to choose the route. Sometimes we take a shortcut and learn something other times we take a wrong turn and learn a valuable lesson. 

 

Happy New Year folks I’ve a feeling 2018 is going to be a good un

 

[skyhuck]

I have read this thread and the other with interest and watched the various videos.

 

I have come to the conclusion that peoples experience of "consciousness" must vary greatly. It appears some have a problem that needs fixing, I don't feel this.

 

I'm from a strict religious family. I have realised that unlike them I have no god shaped hole in me or my life.

 

This to me feels like a substitute for religion, for people too smart to believe in god.

[Vespasian]

After looking at what Jung has to say, and tryin to fathom what he's on about, I found a few vids explaining in layman's terms what he's tryin to get at..

 

Simply put, Jung believes the brain/mind created an internal architecture as it evolved..  inside that architecture its holds a memory of past events in the form of symbols..  shapes if you will..  If a child see's a snake the child is terrified..  a woman see's a mouse and she is terrified..

 

Jung would say both are terrified because their brain architecture has long ago programmed their brains to be afraid of anything that looks like a snake or mammal's with a snake like tail..  

 

Jung stretches the analogy to include religious beliefs. he would say humans are programmed to be religious..  find solace in religion..

ex.. the dying and rising god-man as an archetype..  Murdoch Moses Jesus..  the modern equivalence being Luke Skywalker of Star Wars..

When well presented these stories resonate with our internal architecture..  its our memories paying homage to the hero.. the good man..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WesD]

I’m not religious whatsoever but have an open mind. I buy 98% of this consciousnesses debate however I feel there is a free will be it limited, most inputs are forced through our senses and our outputs are automated like we have said through past experiences and what not but we are still left with a choice whether you believe that is free will or sub conscious letting you believe in free will is probably a personal belief and how you believe your wired internally. 

 

I believe it’s free will and the choice isn’t pre made I’ll now say why I believe this, I have had a few goes at meditating now and when I’m deep in the process I can see thoughts shapes and lights I can choose to ride a thought and see it for what it is or leave it and look at another or watch them go whilst holding onto the breath but in that state I can choose where I go and when to end my session it’s quite liberating I know I’m not being guided and can see it for what it is. 

 

I believe now however it is your choice you have the option of control and or free will. 

 

Inventors more than likely made the choice to have free will for they had to think and invent something that never existed and in that sense couldn’t have been guided by experience of past thoughts they had to train the brain so to speak to think of something for its first time and creation of thought created invention.