Free will or lack of.......

[the village idiot]

7 minutes ago, wjotner said:

Thanks village idiot. I'll check that one out.

Have you watched the video in the Brit girls-fat thread?

[the village idiot]

5 hours ago, Mortimer Firewood said:

Tithe guy who taught me mindfulness studied under a Shamon in Australia for around 7 years and has been to many retreats. 

He is also a Bowen Therapist which I also get a great deal of. 

 We have spent hours discussing how Meditating Mindfulness and other things can help pain manegment addiction well being PTSD and a whole variety of other ailments. 

Hes and old hippy probably took far to much DMT but he's probably the only person I know that's completely at ease with everything. 

Keep it coming I'm quite enjoying your posts.  

I agree. I think that becoming more personally aware of how the mind is going about it's business is as close to a magic bullet as we are going to get for some considerable time for addressing any negative conditions associated with the brain.

 

I have read that compounds such as DMT can be very useful for demonstating to people in a very direct way that there are mind states of 'no self' that are readily achievable. I have never tried DMT. The important difference between mindfulness meditation and psychedelic trips is that the compounds produce a temporary state whereas minfulness meditation cultivates a more lasting trait. In other words meditation changes the nature of mind more permenantly.

 

My friend went on a DMT retreat recently to get his first taste of selflesness. Unfortunately he experienced nothing more profound that three boring nights sitting on his arse, and a bucket full of his own vomit.

From what I can gather he was just really unlucky, almost everyone who takes DMT has at least some form of psychedelic experience. All of his fellow retreaters had their minds blown.

[Mark J]

DMT is a profound thing.

 

I'm intrigued by mindfullness.

 

Cheers Mr Idiot.

 

 

[the village idiot]

1 minute ago, Mark J said:

DMT is a profound thing.

 

I'm intrigued by mindfullness.

 

Cheers Mr Idiot.

 

 

No worries Mark, glad you are interested!

[Mortimer Firewood]

55 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

I agree. I think that becoming more personally aware of how the mind is going about it's business is as close to a magic bullet as we are going to get for some considerable time for addressing any negative conditions associated with the brain.

 

I have read that compounds such as DMT can be very useful for demonstating to people in a very direct way that there are mind states of 'no self' that are readily achievable. I have never tried DMT. The important difference between mindfulness meditation and psychedelic trips is that the compounds produce a temporary state whereas minfulness meditation cultivates a more lasting trait. In other words meditation changes the nature of mind more permenantly.

 

My friend went on a DMT retreat recently to get his first taste of selflesness. Unfortunately he experienced nothing more profound that three boring nights sitting on his arse, and a bucket full of his own vomit.

From what I can gather he was just really unlucky, almost everyone who takes DMT has at least some form of psychedelic experience. All of his fellow retreaters had their minds blown.

DMT is a very interesting substance it's called the spirit molecule or God molecule it's released upon death so we can cope. That's why many who have near death experience come back with such vivid tales. It can be found in most living things. 

If your friend was vomiting I would imagine it was Ayahuasca very pure DMT but mixed with other plants so the stomach can take it up. People have very introspective trips and learn a lot about themselves all reporting meeting Mother Nature.

If DMT is smoked it's ingested into the lungs and a short 15 min trip where again many people report the same things. 

Some great Ted Talks on thesa and obviously Terrance McKenna has a lot to say on the subject. 

 

Not it that I would condone taking illegal substances. 

 

[Rough Hewn]

There are two types of dmt and many enhancers.
Be very careful.

[Mesterh]

Free will or extremely powerful hallucinogenic drugs? I'm sure there is some kind of contradiction of terms  here.

 

 

[the village idiot]

13 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

Free will or extremely powerful hallucinogenic drugs? I'm sure there is some kind of contradiction of terms  here.

 

 

We have gone down a bit of a side alley with the hallucinogenic drug thing, but thinking about it, it does raise some issues regarding free will.

 

DMT is a drug which when inputted to the brain causes a change in it's chemistry and neural firings, resulting in an outcome that is similar in nature between individuals but wildly unpedictable in it's specifics. Once you are tripping you have no free will to stop it, you just have to ride it out. The brain just does it's thing.

 

The brain is a drug factory. In normal everday life you are constantly under the influence of drugs in exactly the same manner as with DMT. Seratonin is a drug, Dopamine is a drug, hormones are drugs. These are all produced automatically in the brain and body. They influence thoughts, bodily functions and many actions completely automatically and you can't will them into being released. Where is the free will in that?

[Mesterh]

Been reading a bit more on the free will theory, not enough.

 

Trying to understand the concept. If we have no free will then why should we bother to mediate or suggest to others that we mediate?

 

We are just all playing out some big game so me suggesting that we all just smoke some crack because it is better than dmt is ok? 

 

Never tried the above but I bet crack is fairly good.

 

 

 

 

[the village idiot]

2 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

Been reading a bit more on the free will theory, not enough.

 

Trying to understand the concept. If we have no free will then why should we bother to mediate or suggest to others that we mediate?

 

We are just all playing out some big game so me suggesting that we all just smoke some crack because it is better than dmt is ok? 

 

Never tried the above but I bet crack is fairly good.

 

 

 

 

By suggesting to others that they could try meditation I am putting the thought in their heads. I can't predict, and nor can they, whether it will result in them actually starting to meditate, but without being exposed to the premise they will certainly never meditate. It would not be an outcome available to them.

 

Outcomes are determined by inputs and the state of the brain right up to just before the action. The individual had no control over whether I told them about meditation and they have no control over the exact state of their brain at any moment. They have no control and therefore  (I believe) no free will.