Using Climbing Gear From The States In The Uk

[Peter]

First of all, being told that Cornwall is still in the dark ages by a Northener is a bit of a joke!

 

 

I resent that remark, I was born in Southampton I'll have you know.

As for Cornwall, well the last time I stayed with my family in Hayle, they told me about some council tree work that had occurred outside their house recently.

Two blokes, one up a ladder with a bowsaw, no PPE, no helmets, no road signs, ect. The one on the ground commenting to the other one as he took the took off a eucalyptus, "you be careful up there cos if you slip you'll go right in the stream". All in a broad Cornish accent of course.

Wasnt you was it mate?

[igottacabstar]

I resent that remark, I was born in Southampton I'll have you know.

As for Cornwall, well the last time I stayed with my family in Hayle, they told me about some council tree work that had occurred outside their house recently.

Two blokes, one up a ladder with a bowsaw, no PPE, no helmets, no road signs, ect. The one on the ground commenting to the other one as he took the took off a eucalyptus, "you be careful up there cos if you slip you'll go right in the stream". All in a broad Cornish accent of course.

Wasnt you was it mate?

 

Don't think so Peter, I ain't no council employee! I employ others to do silly things on ladders above streams:proud:

[Bundle 2]

google it !

 

 

http://www.ce-marking.org/how-obtain.html

 

The point here is perhaps that we really are discussing the use of equipment that is familiar to us...If it has been passed for use in the uk /europe, happens to be the same tool manufactured in US for example. it becomes an issue of minutiae.I bounce the ball back to the manufacturers..we need universal standards if we are to avoid becoming victims of individual inspectors likes/dislikes or interpretation of regs...

Rule of thumb..FIT FOR PURPOSE

The fact remains that I believe the USA drives arboriculture..I'm not saying I like it but that seems to be the way of thngs. It was born there and developed in a large part. Europe has a different set of rules and compatability .Manufacturing has always been a global thing..never more so that china now wants to play with the big boys. It is a testament to Stihl's ingenuity and resourcefulness imo that they maintain a small number of manufacturing plants in and around the world, successfully bridging the platforms of conformity to sell their product worldwide...Quality

The point here is that I would not resubmit a tool for recertification if the loler/hse had a problem. I'd ask they doit and prove beyond doubt that the original classification ( theirs) falls victim to double standards......mmmmmmmm......

[Arbocop]

hi chaps some interesting points hear lets try and clear some up, CE marking. the issue of shopes selling items for which an appropriate european norm (EN) exists but selling no EN items and selling them in the EU in this country is is a DTI issue, only when you the unwitting customer has bought it and started using it for work would it fall under the eye of the HSE.

 

if we think about PPE for a bit your harness climbing karabeanre etc are all class 3, whitch menas if they fail you suffer death or seariose injury. Theer fore the PPE regulations say for class 3 you MUST USE CE marked equipment. now there is a whole long set of reasons for this not lewast of all compliance, performance compatability and user information. LOLER does not say this.

 

LOLER and to some extent W@H regs are to do with many aspects of people and loads not just inspection. BUTthey do allow you to inspect equipment without CE marking and come to a pass/fail decision on the item (obviously this is esier with CE info as you know its performance peramiters) and you can pass an item of kit as 'TECHNICALLY SOUND' BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT even though you can pass the item as technically sound, if it is PPE kit it is the PPE regs that prevent you usinging it for work in this country or even europe, so in a nut shell a loler inspector can pass your weaver harness with no ce mark the offence is to useit as ppe in europe.

 

as for the saw issue dont even go there

 

hope that helps tidy that one up a bit

[Craig Johnson]

The fact remains that I believe the USA drives arboriculture..I'm not saying I like it but that seems to be the way of thngs. It was born there and developed in a large part.

 

 

 

dont want to jack this, but, arboriculture started in europe/england 300 years before it became popular term in the states in the 1930's. europe leads the way in R&D and always has, but the states is a bigger market place

 

and arbocop is spot on

 

ANSI is only a 'standard' to which things are made and has no independant testing

 

some 'ANSI' harness would not pass the CE test

[scotspine1]

arboriculture started in europe/england 300 years before it became popular term in the states in the 1930's.

 

Thats true, people all over the world have been caring for/managing trees for hundreds of years, but 'arboriculture' as we practice it today owes a great deal to the US.

 

Americans in general appreciate trees far more than British people do. You only have to visit the US to realise this. Their long legacy of urban tree management is a sign of the high status in which trees are held in America. Trees are not held in such high esteem in the UK.

 

If it weren't for US model of arboriculture we would still be climbing 60 ft ladders to lop off branches with rusty bowsaws.

[Bundle 2]

You ain't jacking s**t bro....The only thing spot on here is that we none of us really know where we stand for as long as standards are duplicated or divided by national or regional differences. I will argue the toss if I can and if I think what I'm doing is safe. Especially if to not do so means I am forced to adopt new working practices with which Iam not familiar perhaps, opening me up to the dangers of not knowing what the f**k I am doin'...again!

[scotspine1]

europe leads the way in R&D and always has

 

That may be true, I dont know enough about R&D in arboriculture to comment, but when it comes to rigging practices/equipment America led the way. The US arb industry were also the first to build and produce bucket trucks/aerial platforms specifically for urban treework decades ago. From what I've seen we still dont have one single dedicated tree MEWP in Europe.

[Bundle 2]

It certainly doesnt make much sense to suggest that America had no need of tree surgeons b4 the europeans dreampt it up! I wa s jus having a rant; you're probably right man, I am probably overly impressed by the likes of Shigo. IMO probably the singlemost significant contribution to our understanding of the organisms we work with day to day. An American dag nammit!!

[aworldoftrees]

hi chaps some interesting points hear lets try and clear some up, CE marking. the issue of shopes selling items for which an appropriate european norm (EN) exists but selling no EN items and selling them in the EU in this country is is a DTI issue, only when you the unwitting customer has bought it and started using it for work would it fall under the eye of the HSE.

 

if we think about PPE for a bit your harness climbing karabeanre etc are all class 3, whitch menas if they fail you suffer death or seariose injury. Theer fore the PPE regulations say for class 3 you MUST USE CE marked equipment. now there is a whole long set of reasons for this not lewast of all compliance, performance compatability and user information. LOLER does not say this.

 

LOLER and to some extent W@H regs are to do with many aspects of people and loads not just inspection. BUTthey do allow you to inspect equipment without CE marking and come to a pass/fail decision on the item (obviously this is esier with CE info as you know its performance peramiters) and you can pass an item of kit as 'TECHNICALLY SOUND' BUT AND THIS IS A BIG BUT even though you can pass the item as technically sound, if it is PPE kit it is the PPE regs that prevent you usinging it for work in this country or even europe, so in a nut shell a loler inspector can pass your weaver harness with no ce mark the offence is to useit as ppe in europe.

 

as for the saw issue dont even go there

 

hope that helps tidy that one up a bit

Having digested the above, a lot of good sound words. In a nutshell if that’s at all possible on this subject you should NOT use none CE approved product there are too many variables, the potential and only looser could be you!

 

As I see it,

• Importers should not sell on the open market “and should be reported” none C.E. that sometimes could mean inferior and dangerous products.

• How can a loler inspector know the quality of the product without the safeguards of certification and therefore pass it fit for purpose? Might look good “nice and shiny” has it been tested? No! not to the standards put in place to safeguard YOU the user.

• As stated above it is an offence not to buy but to use therefore why bother?

 

Standards and common sense are needed in all aspects of life thank goodness “end of sermon”