Network Rail remit question

[nepia]

A client has a 40' long dead telegraph pole of a Leyland (~14"dbh) immediately his side of the fence separating him from a railway embankment.

The tree has a lean taking it down the only narrow arc it could fall to ground and that takes it straight across the tracks (two of them - a London line).  It could go no other way because of the lean and surrounding trees.

 

1) Should this be reported to Network Rail or do they survey their land sufficiently to spot it?

2) If Network Rail want the tree gone what is their likely attitude to who deals with it?  It could be relevant that the thing could easily be left lying in lengths on the embankment; I can't see that removal would be necessary as the bank runs down from the tracks, not up to them.

 

Sorry, didn't even think to get pics but my description sums up the situation.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

There was a long and detailed discussion and exchange of experiences on interface with NR a while back - can't for the life of me remember the topic title though.

 

From my own experience, they are a total nightmare to engage with and will attempt the 'strong-arm', bullyboy, corporate power wielding at the earliest opportunity.  

 

If it goes via their process, or if they are in any way involved in discussion, it will result in adding 000£s to the bill and if the landowner decides not to take any action they will threaten the potential (real potential) of 000,000£s if any incident (or a train driver's perception of the potential for an incident (which leads to a stoppage or delay) occurs.)

 

In my example, it was a TPO'd tree (amongst a group of 20 or so similarly TPO'd) at the top of a railway embankment.  The age class and condition of the trees had resulted in the TPO approval to fell x4 (later superseded by a FC FL due to total qty) Monterey pine.

 

x4 were reduced / felled, this one was not one of them.  It had a significant lean towards the railway, showed notable growth features and characteristics of concern and would reach the railway if (a) the whole tree fell or (b) the top broke out - examples of which had been illustrated within the row of trees.

 

The TO would not support felling of this tree (and I'm not wholly in disagreement) but the landowner was exceptionally worried about the (very real) potential for failure (given the age class and group history) and the huge moral and financial implications of such an event.

 

I've got a good idea methinks!  I'll get the NR track safety bod to join me and the TO onsite for an assessment...

 

What a mistake that was!  For simply highlighting the element of concern he was off and running!  Now it was entirely MY liability if any incident occurred and in order to fell the tree I'd need him (at £500/day) and track monitors and this, and that and it all had to done straight away and under their complete control and direction.

 

He was a total corporate mental case!  I honestly believe he had no concept of real world process outside of NR.

 

Try as I might, I simply could not get into his thick skull that I, personally, had no liability whatsoever for anything the tree did, or didn't do (unless I was involved in the felling operation) - that liability rests with the landowner, and if a TPO application was submitted and refused, potentially with the LA.

 

No.  Not having it!  I was the named person on the contact form therefore it was me that was liable...  No use telling him it wasn't my tree, just couldn't get through to him.  No use telling him I may 'advise' the landowner but I can't 'force' them to do what I advise.  Not even interested in the fact that the landowner was not at liberty to take any action without LA approval...  Nothing, nada, just couldn't get through!

 

It's probably time for a review on that site so this may all come up again soon 

 

But to answer the questions:

 

(1) they will survey their own, and adjacent areas of land for hazards to their operation - however, the liability for any damage / incident that might occur remains absolutely with the tree owner.  You can't outsource that responsibility because you think someone else might survey it. 

 

(2) You might get lucky, but I'd say it would be lucky rather than rely upon any expectation of rationale behaviour, expect to be bent over and royally vaselined!

 

Best of luck!!

 

 

 

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Yertiz:

 

 

[nepia]

Thanks Mr J.  Life sounds like one big party at the happy happy Network Rail doesn't it.  Maybe I won't be calling them just yet 

 

The suggestion I like best from that other thread (thanks for the reference btw - very helpful) is seeking out a contractor that does NR work in the area; a couple of names come into my head as starting points.

£1.5k a day for a dead telegraph pole is an unlikely outcome methinks. 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, nepia said:

a contractor that does NR work in the area

[drinksloe]

Asking a local contractor will probably be the way to go, and if u have to contact NR he can point u to the more sensible/common sense folk.

 

I used to cut and climb on the railways, was a while ago now.

We cut some decent trees well back from the railways, althou I have to admit I have no idea who was paying wot. We just done it while doing the rest of the line (so guessing it was a freebie?)

 

Might be similar with power lines too, will all depend on the surveyor u get.

I asked the power boys to cut a few trees back slightly further back from the line, the didn't do the work (despite me telling them not to bother chipping any brash in return) yet they took a massive beech down for a mate that was well outwith the zone all for free too

[openspaceman]

On 9/23/2017 at 16:45, nepia said:

A client has a 40' long dead telegraph pole of a Leyland (~14"dbh) immediately his side of the fence separating him from a railway embankment.

The tree has a lean taking it down the only narrow arc it could fall to ground and that takes it straight across the tracks (two of them - a London line).  It could go no other way because of the lean and surrounding trees.

 

1) Should this be reported to Network Rail or do they survey their land sufficiently to spot it?

2) If Network Rail want the tree gone what is their likely attitude to who deals with it?  It could be relevant that the thing could easily be left lying in lengths on the embankment; I can't see that removal would be necessary as the bank runs down from the tracks, not up to them.

 

NR tend not to be proactive.

 

The significant thing is if the work involves anyone or anything being "on or near the line", which for most purposes can be taken as 3metres from the nearest running rail. Next is whether the work can be all done without going onto NR land (trepass on rail land is criminal rather than civil offence). Then there are normal proximity  rules (two tree length for straight felling, proximity of conductors). If you cannot satisfy these  then you need to contact the off track manager. 

 

If the tree is dead  and obviously a high risk to the rail then if it disrupted the trains I think the owner would be visited with large costs for his or her negligence.

[nepia]

I can pass on points 1 & 2; point 3 could be more of an issue 

 

Enquiries are progressing satisfactorily.

 

Thank you.