Working over water

[felixthelogchopper]

The main issue is that they can go off when they are not supposed to, which may cause more of a hazard than wearing no jacket at all.

 

Older/cheaper styles were/are activated by a dissolving tablet which, over time, would degrade due to getting damp and can then activate themselves at random. Whilst this can be no more than an embarrassment in some situations (and mildly entertaining in others!), it can be a real hazard in restricting movement or preventing access to other safety gear, release devices etc.

 

Newer/more expensive ones are activated by hydrostatic pressure (ie a head of water) which is an improvement. However, even this can still lead to problems when they activate due to the same issues of restricted movement etc.

 

Personally, I can think of nothing worse than being restrained by a climbing line, potentially to a point some distance above you, and restricted in my ability to move in potentially fast flowing water.

 

Despite having more than 90 auto-inflate lifejackets for our various boats (we charter out boats in the summer months and they are specified by the MCA) we still use fixed buoyancy jackets when working in or close to rivers (we maintain approx 140 sites for the EA each winter). Similarly, most of the diving/workboat contractors I work with also use fixed buoyancy jackets for their deck crew. Even the manual gas inflate jackets can be a hazard if the toggles get snagged and inflate the jacket (the last time it happened to me I was trying to get out of a locker - very amusing for those who were watching:sneaky2:)

 

IMHO, given that most arborists will not be working alone then if your RA advises that some kind of buoyancy aid is required then I would look at fixed rather than inflatable types. These have the further advantage that they can be worn under a chest harness etc if it so suits the individual. Playing devil's advocate, there could also be a case for NOT wearing a jacket if working in a tree but secured by suitable climbing lines etc.

 

Thanks for the reply.I thought it was specifically the auto-inflate types you meant. My main thought was the possibility of somebody going in while unconscious and so unable to activate the jacket. With the fixed type, do they not get in the way like an inflated CO2 type would?

[Ian Clarke]

i cant remember when or where it happened.

 

but i remember a story of a tree surgeon working on a tree on a steep river bank. he had 2 trees to dismantle his main anchor was in the tree slighty further back. working on the other tree and felt the tree move the whole land with the tree slipped down to the river. he removed or cut his work positioning strop to be free of the tree.

 

my main point is there are lots of dangers that we are not used too. be aware of everything and expect the unexpected.

 

stay safe

[felixthelogchopper]

i cant remember when or where it happened.

 

but i remember a story of a tree surgeon working on a tree on a steep river bank. he had 2 trees to dismantle his main anchor was in the tree slighty further back. working on the other tree and felt the tree move the whole land with the tree slipped down to the river. he removed or cut his work positioning strop to be free of the tree.

 

my main point is there are lots of dangers that we are not used too. be aware of everything and expect the unexpected.

 

stay safe

 

A good sharp knife where it can be easily reached is definitely a good idea.

[waterbuoy]

Thanks for the reply.I thought it was specifically the auto-inflate types you meant. My main thought was the possibility of somebody going in while unconscious and so unable to activate the jacket. With the fixed type, do they not get in the way like an inflated CO2 type would?

 

My reply and original comment were primarily about the auto-inflate type - sorry if they don't read that way.

 

I'll try and find some pictures to show the difference between an inflated CO2 type jacket and one with fixed buoyancy. That will be later today however as I have to take SWMBO out. For now, perhaps simple enough to say that the CO2 type typically provide upwards of 150N positive buoyancy whilst the fixed type can be as low as 50N. Both should be enough to keep your head above the water, but one is 1/3 the bulk of the other.

 

It should also be mentioned that there is a difference between a lifejacket and buoyancy aid - the former will rotate you on to your back, the latter will provide positive buoyancy. A buoyancy aid should not be worn when working alone for this reason. However, and as I think I said in my original OP, our view is that the presence of a banksman provides a sensible degree ofbackup should 'worst case' occur and the casualty is unconscious.

[waterbuoy]

A couple of images taken from the web showing the difference between the CO2 inflation type lifejackets when inflated, and a standard buoyancy aid (if this works it'll be my first posting of images so please be patient!)

 

When we have had the autoinflate type jackets inflate on us it has occasionally been the case that we have had to deflate with a knife to allow us to get back on board and/or ashore in faster moving water

[JLA Arborists]

Failing which a line stretched across the river can be a useful catcher for medium-low flows.

 

 

Bearing in mind no one said it's an art comp you'll have to excuse the drawing below , but you should get the idea.

If you attach a line at 90° to the flow the casualty will cause a V and will not be able to move. The line should be ideally less than 45° to allow the casualty to slide down the line toward the bank.

Water flowing will have a force at:

Walking pace 3mph - 7.5kg per leg and 15kg on the body

Steady jog 6mph - 30kg per leg, 60kg body

Fast run 12mph - 120kg per leg, 240kg body.

[waterbuoy]

Agreed

 

Most rivers will be running at less than 2 m/s (or c.4.5 mph)

 

We sometimes rig up the line with a weak link on the far bank so that when the 'floater' grabs hold it will release and bring them back in to the near bank from where they started.

[alfatreeservices]

Most important that you check that you are insured to work near/over/in water with your insurance company best done before works start and documented on your certificate. They may ask for what control methods /competence and how much work/time you will spend in/over or near water.

At least have an e mail that documents this confirmation.

 

If your going to be doing a bit of this work and your employed you may suggest that someone is sent to complete some training rather than relying on what others suggest or whats on the net.

 

It now gets a bit murky, a bit like arb crane courses as HSE don't formally have an ACOP for working as we would do in water, the closest at the low end is safety near water & fitting basic PPE HSE - Publications: Free Leaflets - Working near water

 

There's plenty on legionella disease mind....

 

It then go's to the extremes of working in confined spaces (Sewers etc) and commercial diving both of little relevance so there's nothing to guide us with best practice.

 

So when I put blokes in or near the water they have all attended either the Swiftwater Rescue Technican course Swiftwater and Flood Rescue Technician (SRT)

 

This is a 4 day course that you may deem as costly/extreme but that person will be able to give you a good insight into the measures/PPE you will require , the associated risks that you may encounter with the site (Flash floods/weirs/tidal pollution decontamination etc)and assist in completing your RAM's for client.

 

OR have attended a ROSPA type one day water awareness course designed for persons that may be in vicinity to water and have to carry out a rescue (Canal lock keeper/Police etc)

Water Safety - RoSPA

 

A 1 day course that is 90% land based and includes fitting some basic PPE and carrying out bank based rescues using non specialist equipment.

 

Also as pointed out there are many items of PPE that are available some suited to different scenarios if your doing lots of water work its good to have an array of PFD's/self inflating devices /drysuits/throwlines maybe even a boat or floating works platform and a good working knowledge about ropes/knots or No knots/harness's and being tied into a system when in water which could be more dangerous than not being tied in.

 

Chainsaw trousers can go under drysuits with no issues but chainsaw boots for protection v Canyon Boots for stability and grip is a debate I leave for the individual to decide.

 

A wading stick or 2 fibre polesaw sections with a hook on the top (They float)

 

A good toolbox talk just like crane work with any other agencies and comms for all (Radio headsets ideal)

 

One worker in the water with someone close (On bank or in water) watching there back and passing saws/tools/wading stick etc and then someone equipped/prepared to carry out a rescue down stream from works who is not involved in the works (This can make this nature of works costly for a client but it is essential to ensure safety of workers)

 

I do understand that many will deem the above as an extreme will giggle & nod there head don wellies and speedo's and just get in there as its like a paddling pool whatever you choose stay safe & look after your staff.

[RichieR]

A couple of blokes I worked with got in with a local pub landlord whose pub backed onto the Derwent and they asked if they could clear some of the bank for fishing. He agreed and they set to and were doing alright till one of the trees fell in the river and they couldn't get it up onto the bank so they cut the rope and let it go. A bit later they got a visit from Severn Trent who told them to cease and desist as the tree had caused problems with the canoe club further downstream.

 

When I managed stalag 13 caravan park on the river Severn and I had to clear up after the floods, I thought it was standard practice to clear fell into the river when there was a flood on the way.