Reg on one handing a saw

[R Mac]

Seems like I remember Stihl designing a trigger chain brake?

 

An inertia function as well would make it a bit more fool proof, IMO.

 

Kinduva multifunction trigger, somewhat like a double locking biner.

 

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/technology/chain-braking-systems/

 

Jomoco

 

I don't doubt that the manufacturers could design a top handle saw that only functioned with 2 hands on the saw or had some from of chainbrake that worked one handed.

 

The thing is is in an accident where the saw kicked back causing injury is there any way of knowing what caused the kickback? we assume or at least the industry watchdogs and supporters of 2 handed only use seem to suggest that it was a result of cutting one handed, I'm not sure it's as simple as that, surely the point is not getting into a kickback situation (kickback can occur regardless of how many hands you have on the saw and of course if it happens you have more control with 2 hands but it's kinda closing the stable door after the horse has bolted).

 

Secondly there are other factors that could cause an operator to sustain a kickback injury or even just a cut injury or cutting through a climbing line causing a fall etc, even when starting to cut 2 handed, something causing them to have to take one hand off the saw while making a cut, a slip, spike coming out causing loss of balance etc?

 

Is it reasonable to suggest that a guy making a deliberate one handed cut is less likely to sustain a kickback or accidental cutting of climbing lines than a guy making a 2 handed cut and then needing to instinctively take a hand off the saw mid cut to steady himself due to some other problem?

 

There's a difference between cutting one handed by choice compared to ending up unexpectedly with only one hand on a running saw mid cut. One is predetermined and one unexpected, I know which one I'd put money on as being the most dangerous situation.

[skyhuck]

I don't doubt that the manufacturers could design a top handle saw that only functioned with 2 hands on the saw or had some from of chainbrake that worked one handed.

 

The thing is is in an accident where the saw kicked back causing injury is there any way of knowing what caused the kickback? we assume or at least the industry watchdogs and supporters of 2 handed only use seem to suggest that it was a result of cutting one handed, I'm not sure it's as simple as that, surely the point is not getting into a kickback situation (kickback can occur regardless of how many hands you have on the saw and of course if it happens you have more control with 2 hands but it's kinda closing the stable door after the horse has bolted).

 

Secondly there are other factors that could cause an operator to sustain a kickback injury or even just a cut injury or cutting through a climbing line causing a fall etc, even when starting to cut 2 handed, something causing them to have to take one hand off the saw while making a cut, a slip, spike coming out causing loss of balance etc?

 

Is it reasonable to suggest that a guy making a deliberate one handed cut is less likely to sustain a kickback or accidental cutting of climbing lines than a guy making a 2 handed cut and then needing to instinctively take a hand off the saw mid cut to steady himself due to some other problem?

 

There's a difference between cutting one handed by choice compared to ending up unexpectedly with only one hand on a running saw mid cut. One is predetermined and one unexpected, I know which one I'd put money on as being the most dangerous situation.

 

The chain brake is inertia operated, so is not reliant on two hands being on the saw.

[R Mac]

The chain brake is inertia operated, so is not reliant on two hands being on the saw.

 

I appreciate that but clearly if people are cutting themselves in a kickback situation with only one hand on the saw the inertia brake hasn't activated. With 2 hands on the saw the hand guard coming into contact with your hand/wrist should in theory activate the chain brake.

 

I was thinking along the lines of a kill switch mounted on the front handle that requires both hands on the saw to get it to run, similar to an electric hedge trimmer, I'm sure it's possible for the manufacturers to come up with something if they feel the saw should never be used with one hand only.

[Haironyourchest]

I appreciate that but clearly if people are cutting themselves in a kickback situation with only one hand on the saw the inertia brake hasn't activated. With 2 hands on the saw the hand guard coming into contact with your hand/wrist should in theory activate the chain brake.

 

I was thinking along the lines of a kill switch mounted on the front handle that requires both hands on the saw to get it to run, similar to an electric hedge trimmer, I'm sure it's possible for the manufacturers to come up with something if they feel the saw should never be used with one hand only.

 

Easy to do, but who would buy the saw? A kickback to the neck wouldn't have to be a running chain to be lethal, just the impact alone could kill, I should think. What you said about mindfulness when making the cut seems to be the whole crux of the issue -as a power tool user for many years, can safely say all power tools are dangerous, they all have their intrinsic mechanical forces and probable injury modes. Mindfulness is the only way to protect ourselves, there is no other way - not ppe (ok, maybe the plate armour) not gadgets - its really all up the the operator. Think ahead, visualise, be casutious when caution is needed, and decisive when it's call for. Top handle saw is just a power tool like any other, it has potential to kick back, fall through etc.

[jomoco]

You guys aren't getting the point.

 

Incorporating the chainbrake into the trigger assembly of any saw'd make it safer, IMO.

 

Release of the trigger would instantly activate the brake, whether you're one handing, two handing, regardless.

 

You can argue the be careful n don't make mistakes rationale zealously enough to forgo chain brakes entirely.

 

But the fact of the matter is folks make mistakes consistently enough to make chain brakes standard issue stuff these days.

 

I'd like a trigger activated chain brake on all my saws.

 

Even my three n half lb pneumatic chainsaw!

 

Jomoco

[Takjaa]

I was thinking along the lines of a kill switch mounted on the front handle that requires both hands on the saw to get it to run, similar to an electric hedge trimmer, I'm sure it's possible for the manufacturers to come up with something if they feel the saw should never be used with one hand only.

 

That sounds awful!

 

I may be the most prolific one handed chainsaw user both in the tree and on the ground. Does that mean I'm good? I've worked out a secret? I'm invincible? Nope... it means I've delt with the situation in front of me with a bit of thought, practiced one hand use for quite some time and am aware of the dangers and outcomes.

 

Every close call was my fault from bad work position and laziness.

 

But having found bad things happen shortly after thinking 'fu** it' & 'if I could just'

Now either of these thoughs come into my head, chain brake on, look around find the issue and mitigate the risk... move, add another rope, add a sling, use a silky, ask an opinion.... options!

 

One handing a saw imo is largely hype, of couse I can see the dangers.... but guess what.. most things in our line of work have associated risks! We hang from trees on 8mm prusik, chainsaw trees small enough to feed to the chipper of doom, then grind the stumps with the spinning wheel of death, all this whilst effectively deaf, and using the safety squint.

 

I neither encourage nor shame one handed use much the same as I don't mind if you drink a coffee whilst driving at 70 mph, both these things are calculated risks, however I will call tools down if I see something not right!

Our work is fun yes but it is not a game and the consequences can be fatal.

 

When battery saws are the only saws, immediate chain stop, no noise, no smell, no fear.... will one handing even be mentioned?

 

It isn't coincidence that stihl only sell top handles from their outlets asking for proof of tickets!

We can all guess who the majority of accidents happen too!!

[silky fox]

Great Post Takjaa. My 160T E-saw does have the immediate chain stop on trigger release but is not the reason i got it.It's just a bonus i guess.

[R Mac]

That sounds awful!

 

I may be the most prolific one handed chainsaw user both in the tree and on the ground. Does that mean I'm good? I've worked out a secret? I'm invincible? Nope... it means I've delt with the situation in front of me with a bit of thought, practiced one hand use for quite some time and am aware of the dangers and outcomes.

 

Every close call was my fault from bad work position and laziness.

 

But having found bad things happen shortly after thinking 'fu** it' & 'if I could just'

Now either of these thoughs come into my head, chain brake on, look around find the issue and mitigate the risk... move, add another rope, add a sling, use a silky, ask an opinion.... options!

 

One handing a saw imo is largely hype, of couse I can see the dangers.... but guess what.. most things in our line of work have associated risks! We hang from trees on 8mm prusik, chainsaw trees small enough to feed to the chipper of doom, then grind the stumps with the spinning wheel of death, all this whilst effectively deaf, and using the safety squint.

 

I neither encourage nor shame one handed use much the same as I don't mind if you drink a coffee whilst driving at 70 mph, both these things are calculated risks, however I will call tools down if I see something not right!

Our work is fun yes but it is not a game and the consequences can be fatal.

 

When battery saws are the only saws, immediate chain stop, no noise, no smell, no fear.... will one handing even be mentioned?

 

 

I want to be clear on this, I'm not suggesting the manufacturers should make their top handle saw operate only with both hands on the saw, only that they could if they felt it was required, they clearly designed the saws to be one handed if required so obviously they don't see one handing as an issue. I think if you read my last couple of posts you'll see I'm not advocating a two handed approach as i feel the solution isn't as simple as the industry bodies would have us believe.

 

It isn't coincidence that stihl only sell top handles from their outlets asking for proof of tickets!

We can all guess who the majority of accidents happen too!!

 

I'm not sure we can guess to be honest, aren't we talking about injuries sustained by climbers one handing a top handle saw? That being the case they would have the tickets to enable them to purchase any top handle saw.

 

If you're suggesting that the injuries are sustained by non ticket holders then that's another issue entirely.

 

Just a side note but don't Husqvarna require tickets to purchase a top handle saw? There was a sticker on the box my Echo CS-360TES came in saying it was for use by trained tree service professionals only (or words to that effect)

Edited December 12, 2016 by R Mac

[Takjaa]

R Mac my apologies there should have been a smiley face after awful:thumbdown: to indicate i was playing, in a similar way the gym equipment all has heart rate monitors on them, all you have to do is hold both metal handles, i already know how annoying that saw could be ...and know it is a future possibility!

 

Earlier it was mentioned that the statistics on chainsaw accidents was a grouped thing and no indication on if it was a professional or not, I guess i jumped to conclusions by thinking - how many chainsaws does home depot sell a year compared with (pick an arb store)? how many of them sell ppe with the saw? .... that is a metric sh$t tonne of people with no knowledge other that several drawn pictures in a 'you're new saw handbook' and no ppe playing at being a lumberjack, vs trained, ticketed and experienced arborists, im sure there are many more factors tho.

 

The topic is Reg on one handing a saw, so not necessarily climbers, as a lot of people have toppers at home, imo this is the main numbers for chainsaw/hand injuries - "ill just use that little one hander saw to cut this bit of fire wood im holding..."

As I said I may have jumped to conclusions .. I have certainly been wrong before!

 

As for Husqvarna saws Iv no idea I have never bought nor sold one, I am told they are nice.

[R Mac]

R Mac my apologies there should have been a smiley face after awful:thumbdown: to indicate i was playing, in a similar way the gym equipment all has heart rate monitors on them, all you have to do is hold both metal handles, i already know how annoying that saw could be ...and know it is a future possibility!

 

Ok my misunderstanding then, yeah I don't want to see changes made for the sake of change or to compensate for the effect rather than dealing with the cause.

 

Earlier it was mentioned that the statistics on chainsaw accidents was a grouped thing and no indication on if it was a professional or not, I guess i jumped to conclusions by thinking - how many chainsaws does home depot sell a year compared with (pick an arb store)? how many of them sell ppe with the saw? .... that is a metric sh$t tonne of people with no knowledge other that several drawn pictures in a 'you're new saw handbook' and no ppe playing at being a lumberjack, vs trained, ticketed and experienced arborists, im sure there are many more factors tho.

 

The topic is Reg on one handing a saw, so not necessarily climbers, as a lot of people have toppers at home, imo this is the main numbers for chainsaw/hand injuries - "ill just use that little one hander saw to cut this bit of fire wood im holding..."

As I said I may have jumped to conclusions .. I have certainly been wrong before!

 

I couldn't agree more and in fact I commented to that effect when RCO posted the 1st video on the subject, I was mainly referring to the image that had been displayed on the guys blog that illustrated where injuries had been sustained. I've suggested myself that it's probable that quite a few injuries sustained when using a top handle happened on the ground because someone was holding an already severed branch and cutting it to length using a topper one handed.

 

As for Husqvarna saws Iv no idea I have never bought nor sold one, I am told they are nice.