Potus ???

[GarethM]

They'd probably all be moaning if he had just carried on as things were, until that eventual economic collapse as the system wormholed under the debt mountain.

 

Granted that's the storyline from idiocracy isn't it ?.

[Yournamehere]

4 hours ago, Johnsond said:

No idea what you are on about 

 

Away an shite man!

Sure you have.

[Johnsond]

22 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

But the actions of Trump and his cronies are not going to improve the situation in Ukraine in any way. He is obviously gunning for the Nobel Peace Prize, but his idea of how to obtain it is total capitulation to Russia.

In withdrawing military aid and intelligence support, he's effectively serving Ukraine up on a plate to Russia. 

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I shall make a series of statements that I regard as being unambiguous:

* In 1994, the Bucharest memorandum was implemented so that Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal in exchange for guarantees of sovereignty and security from the US, the UK and Russia. This agreement should have guaranteed that Russia wouldn't invade, and failing that, that the US and UK would protect Ukraine.

 

* The US withdrawal from European security and probably Nato is deeply hypocritical given that the only time that Article 5 was invoked was by the US after 9/11. Nato troops from all nations fought and died on behalf of the US.

 

* Vance's comments about "20,000 random troops from countries that haven't fought wars for 30-40 years" is absolutely disgusting. Not only have they fought wars, but they've fought US wars.

 

* Trump's demands for concessions from Ukraine are enormous and do not provide Ukraine with any security. The only demand he's made of Putin is that he stop killing Ukrainians.

 

* If Russia stops fighting tomorrow, the war is over. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no Ukraine.

In light of that extremely brief and by no means exhaustive list, how can it be right that Putin is allowed to get everything that he wants and Ukraine has to simply accept it? There has to be some sort of global moral standard and Trump and Putin are definitely far from reaching it. 

All well and good, nothing you have said is new or has not been said before, and your solution is ?? 
 

[Haironyourchest]

14 hours ago, peds said:

 

It's the new normal 🙂 

[Steven P]

'idealistic stance'.. if you don't start your negotiations with your ideal, or better, you are always going to get shafted.

 

Don't start with realistic in case your opposition won't budge unless you do, and then you are getting double shafted. Never start with their ideal position in the hope they will just say "OK" - they will use that as a starting position to gain more concessions.

 

"Roll over and surrender" gets negotiated as "Roll over, surrender, give up the territory and also pay reparations for the invaders losses" after negotiations.

[Johnsond]

7 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Just because I don't have a solution doesn't mean that the solution is total capitulation. 

 

But if I were in any kind of position to influence negotiations, I would (as I said recently) suggest that Ukraine exchange Crimea and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk for an immediate end to the war and EU and Nato membership. 

Russia cannot be trusted not to regroup and invade again, and in theory, NATO membership ought to discourage that. But given that Trump is exhibiting little to no interest in Europe or world peace, the chances of him honouring Article 5 are very small indeed

 

I realise that it's an idealistic stand to take, but countries ought to be able to exist without the threat of other countries invading them. I do not think that being against such actions is unreasonable.

Being reasonable has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Unfortunately this ain’t fantasy football J it’s real life and death. 
Just as in 1939 🤷‍♂️idealism is all well

and good but counts for nothing, a strong deterrent ie well funded and equipped armed forces are the best option a country can have. The world’s a dangerous place J and unfortunately human beings can be the worst of all species. 

[Johnsond]

3 minutes ago, Steven P said:

'idealistic stance'.. if you don't start your negotiations with your ideal, or better, you are always going to get shafted.

 

Don't start with realistic in case your opposition won't budge unless you do, and then you are getting double shafted. Never start with their ideal position in the hope they will just say "OK" - they will use that as a starting position to gain more concessions.

 

"Roll over and surrender" gets negotiated as "Roll over, surrender, give up the territory and also pay reparations for the invaders losses" after negotiations.

Solution? 

 

[GarethM]

Their general solution is run off crying to mummy, then remember Donald in all scenarios is mummy.

 

So suck it up buttercup, unless they have a better solution. As from my memory of history the French don't really have much experience of winning or negotiating.

[Johnsond]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

 

People are mostly awful, I've found. One of the reasons I really enjoy living in the middle of nowhere in Sweden and not really having to talk to anyone

Showing my naivity, I honestly thought that the world was beyond this sort of imperialistic shite. We're in a period of regression.

Yeah I’d not disagree with any of that. We look to be heading for a period of might  is right. One of the saving graces to come out of WW2 was it left us with people and politicians who had experienced the horrors of war, hence the desire never to go there again. Sadly not many have nowadays. 

Edited March 6 by Johnsond

[Yournamehere]

It was on the news today that, apparently, in 1938, Germany invaded part of what was then Czechoslovakia and afterwards, because Germany said that they wouldn't invade any further, Germany was allowed to keep the part that they had invaded to ensure a long-term, peaceful ending.

They'll probably say how that worked out on the news tomorrow. Let's hope these invading countries are led by honest and decent men of integrity.

I'm sure it will be fine.