David Goss

Forestry Commission Scotland - Heritage Trees of Scotland - The Fortingall Yew thats the oldest tree i know of in britain and as far as i know it was never pollarded. I wouldnt call it art i would call it human manipulation of nature which in my eyes is never a good thing.

Well Hama we are just going to have to agree to disagree. 1) they do perfectly well with the crown nature gave them. 2) they are the oldest because all our untouched trees are now either firewood or part of some rotted wartime relic. 3) Accepted by very few that i have ever met except poor Mrs Smith who is now regretting her decision.

Thanks for being so understanding:thumbup1: Yes that is a good theory, and also raises the point that pollarding was done for production. A production of timber that we no longer need so much of if at all. Nowadays however pollarding is sadly done to give old mrs Smith or whoever the view across the river she was wanting (for a year or 2 anyway). Or to give her more light on her lawn (for that same year or 2). Or to stop so many leaves from giving her gardener such a hard time raking up (umm for how long?). The list of reasons goes on but after all the work trying to keep her ugly stumps under control, Who benefits from this? Mrs Smith? having spent a considerable amount of hard cash on the so called arborist that was happy to do the work no questions asked in the first place. Maybe its the tree that benefits from having started its first 100 years growing naturally and looking big and beautiful to being reduced to a rotting hairy stump with lots of lovely fungi eating away at its core? Maybe its Mrs Smiths children that benefit from inheriting the tree that they decide to get cut down because one of their children broke their leg while climbing on it and a big lump came off in the hand? I think i will stop there but i think you get the picture and i am sure you all know this already. So my questions and hopefully my last post on this subject because its getting old and needs to be resolved, are.... 1) What are the so called benefits from pollarding? apart from making cash out of poor old Mrs Smith that knows no better and the only use i can see that is saving an ancient dying tree from complete removal. 2) How can anyone say that a pollarded tree looks better than its natural form? 3) Why is this still practiced today and the people that do it not put in jail for endangering the lives of the puplic? I have many more questions but if anyone can answer these 3 with legitimate answers then that will satisfy me and i will move on to talking about something that doesnt end up in an argument, like lady gaga being a hermaphrodite or something else i have spotted in other threads:001_tt2:

For me the best way to work is to have 2 climbers always. One grounds one day and climbs the next while the other does opposite shifts. This way both climbers get a rest out of the harness or a rest from hauling brash and logs every other day. Also you know if you get in trouble then you have someone that can get you down before you bleed to death. I have been climbing for a long time now but i am still just as happy to do ground work and the people that hire me are always very happy to have someone on the ground making their climbing that much easier. A good groundie is a climber as well because he can see when you need help before you have to start screaming at them to look up every now and again. And he keeps it running smooth because he knows whats coming next.

I found this site and thought i would post it here if anyone is interested. It is an american site but could still be helpful to someone... http://www.woodweb.com/Resources/wood_eng_handbook/Ch01.pdf

I have just ordered mine so i can only agree with deer man for now on the price! and heads up because i dont have it yet once i have used it a few times i will let you know.

Sorry, it was late, i was tired and getting angry and confused

Oh i also missed the "where are the maiden trees" well they were probably cut down during the wars when the need for wood was getting to be more than our forests could handle. Thats just an educated guess but if you want to see proper big healthy ancient trees you have to get off our small island and go where man doesnt

I see the tree as being more important than money. you have your ideals and i have mine.

How ancient does it need to be for you to start liking it? I am not saying all maidens are in perfect health. what i am saying is that all pollarded/topped trees are not in good health and have still to see evidence to the contrary. What do you have against the natural form of a tree? dont you think it is much more beautiful to see a tree in all its natural form than that of a pollarded one? Humans have a lot to answer for and the constant push to change the nature of things and push natural life to the limits is beyond my comprehension. Why must we do these things when it is not necessary? Humans make me sick sometimes with this constant destruction, its like we thrive on hurting things. Some trees that are living around us, in our cities do need to be kept under control so we can live together but pollarding it not the answer for me.

nice one! or a monkey puzzle:001_tt2:

That i can understand but if the guy wants peace of mind then why not brace it? it doesnt have to be tight, just enough so that if it did start to go then the brace would catch it. I also think the reduction would be all that was needed, i just added the brace as an easier way of getting to sleep on a windy night

Ok Hama here is where i am at now... You like your fungi thats cool i like all things that are not human and i do tend to agree with you on the tree and fungi relationship. On the use of pollarding i am still on my side saying its a bad idea. I do agree however that every now and again it is the only way to save a big tree in major difficulty but this is only a temporary fix and the tree will need constant work for the rest of its life. I am speaking in a H&S and urban setting where falling wood can kill. Pollarding in the past i believe was done for production with no regard to the health and well being or future of the trees, if it dies "who cares lets hack that one over there" kind of thing. To me, your love for the pollard is that it gives you some fungi to look at and that is where you see the beauty in it, where i see destruction and pointless extra work keeping the tree under control where it was already in control before the blind hand of man. Anyway i still have a lot of reading to do but i am only convincing myself the more i read that i am correct.

Damn you replied already! i was just about to delete that post cos i realised i hadnt read all of the other thread i also commented on other post thinking there was only 1 page doh! I will get back to you on this but for now i gotta go.

oops didnt realise there was so many replies to this geez i got some heavy reading! my last comment was for the beginning of the thread. I will need to come back to this later... excuse my noobness

to me it looks like this tree has had the cavity rotting away inside for a long time and finally the limb broke off in wind, or with snow, or just with its own weight because there was not enough wood left to hold it. Then i see what seems to be a massive fungus (which may not be and is just some regrowth of wood) of some sort growing out from the top of the hole which is having a good munch on the dead wood (i need a closer look). Monkey's tree looks sad and desperate to live as long as it can but will probably have the same thing happen as with hamadryad's photo when any of the limbs get too big for their anchors. This is one of the reasons i dont like pollards because you have to keep on cutting the poor tree to stop it pulling itself apart. Anyway i am here with an open mind and i am still waiting to be convinced that pollarding is good. (i hope you are prepared to work for it because i will take a lot of convincing)

Ok i have been reading and you got my attention. I must say i am still in no way convinced and i am going to need a lot more to sway what i believe.... my mind is open lets see what you got.

You are right i have not really looked into the practice, i am a more hands on practical guy and admittedly not a great studier of books although i have read many that give reasons not to do this. I still see no proof? all i see is ugly dying trees that i get called out to take down because bits keep falling off them.... Do you have pictures of these pollards that look so good and are so healthy? i can post many pictures of the ugly, rotting, cavity ridden ones but i have yet to see a nice safe one. Please enlighten me

Maybe i am getting mixed up with pollard and topping i dont know i thought it was the same thing, but all i do know is i dont like either. To me changing the structure of a tree by pollarding or topping or whatever you want to call it is wrong. I see the massive cavities in trees that have had this done and i have cut down topped/pollarded trees that have rot all the way to the base because of the damage inflicted years before, I see the many unstable and falling apart trees that is in no doubt for me the result of this practice. I see all this with my own eyes, so forgive me for saying i think you are completely wrong in this because i cant go against what i see with my own eyes. Plus a tree that has had this done is damned ugly and not natural. You sound like a very well educated guy hamadryad but i need to see solid proof that what you say is true because all i have seen so far is decaying trees that have a much shorter and dangerous life ahead of them. They are chatting for all the wrong reasons these "chattiest of trees"

looking back on the thread i can see by the picture that someone has been given the job of working on an already pollarded tree. This is something i have had to deal with on many occasions and it is very often a difficult call as to what exactly to do. The fact of the matter is that the tree is already damaged and will never be the same again, so whatever you do it cant be any worse than what has already happened. You just have to make the call on which limbs are best to come off and which should stay to try and make the best of a bad situation. Still looks horrible when your done like the 2 headed giraffe there

Ummm i dont know what the original thread was here as it seems stuff has beed deleted or i just dont know what i am doing on here as yet BUT!! thats a big BUT! I have been doing this job for about 20 years now and i have admittedly done a few pollards in my time which i now regret very much as i now know better. A pollard should be done ONLY as a last resort. If the tree is in bad shape and dying back on major limbs etc and becoming dangerous to the point where removal seems the only option, then a pollard can be done to at least try to save the tree from complete removal, if the tree is to be kept. I can understand that you may find "veteran tree handbook" and this sort of thing interesting and they may have some valid points in them (cant say i have read them) but i have been taught and continue to read many things from many good scientists and tree people like shigo and mattheck etc who have studied in great detail and with modern scientific methods about this very subject and not one of them say its a good thing. So i am confused that Harrison here is being told differently by Hamadryad. If i have misunderstood then i am sorry but i have read other posts by you Hamadryad and you seem very knowledgeable so could you please explain why it seems you are going against everything that modern arboriculture is teaching us? I have seen the problems and the damage that pollarding does to trees first hand and it makes me sad that it is still practised today. I for one will never do it again and have refused many jobs where i have been asked to do so. I hope i got the wrong end of the stick here (excuse the pun) but should we not stand up against these methods and the people who practice them? I would love to name and shame any company i have heard of that does this and the "its what the customer wants" excuse just does not wash with me. A simple "no missus sorry i wont do that to a healthy tree, here is what i suggest instead and why" normally works for me. Information is generally what a customer lacks and i can give it and am happy to do so. Anyway sorry if i have gone on a bit but i do feel strongly about this topic. Can someone please explain if i got this right or wrong?

I just came back from 5 years staying and working in Italy and i can tell you it doesnt exist! Some of the things i have seen people do there would scare the pants off you and turn your hair grey... and thats just while driving on the roads! I worked with a guy that thought you had to fully rev the saw while taking it out of the cut, yes you heard right taking it out! when i saw him do this (while 15 to 20 meters up during a dismantle) and questioned him about why he did it, he said he read it in the instruction manual of the saw A couple of days later i saved his life when he was starting the felling cut on a very large piece of timber (again on a dismantle) while he was still attached to it with his side strop! And this is from one that actually did his dismantling course! ummm yea that was also the only course he had done... go figure Needless to say Italy has some problems with accidents at work

What about the part of the house thats in the firing line? should he throw that on a set of roller skates and move that when its windy as well? All valid points here and also if you want to be sure the tree is sound inside then you should maybe think of getting a scan done on it. I would still go for the reduction and brace for peace of mind and a set of heavy duty roller skates

I wouldnt put anything on it. I may however clean up the rough bits carefully with a knife to give it a better chance of healing over but other than that it doesnt look too bad, just keep an eye on it. Time will tell

I heard that if you use normal powder it can damage your rope! i was told that you should only use natural soap flakes if you need to use a detergent of any kind. Personally i daisy chain it and hang it up, then blast the hell out of it with a water jet. I tried washing it in the bath but it was more hastle than it was worth, then i noticed when i was rinsing it with the shower that i was getting more dirt out of it so thats what gave me the idea.