Big J

I only think that the Alstor is too expensive for what it is. I think £40k for a forwarder is not excessive given the potential income. I am pretty sure that the chap with the Alstor here gets paid around £9 a tonne. He pulls 40 odd tonne out a day on average, so doing the sums, it's not going to take too long to pay the machine back. I think £40k would be a good goal. Match the price, but improve the quality, capacity and versatility. The Alstor struggles with some of the larger logs we cut, and looking at what it leaves behind, you're left thinking that it could do with being just a touch beefier. I think that the main constraint with regards to size is that it fits on a 16ft tiltbed (or similar) trailer and can be towed behind a Landrover (or similar). Once it gets any bigger than that, the economy and appeal of it goes out the window. I won't pretend to have enough time to be able to operate a forwarder full time, but I am really rather interested in doing a couple of days a week and subcontracting out the other days. There is almost no one up here doing this kind of work. Jonathan

I have broached the subject with my tame engineer, and he seems to be quite interested. He did have one superb idea for an anti roll side slope system, which is to have the timber bogey on a horizontal sliding rail (similar to the sliding bogeys on timber haulage trailers). Hit an unavoidable side slope, all you need to do is move the load across a foot and it should be far harder to roll. It would obviously be an expensive option that would be expensive and incur extra weight. However, if a lot of your work involved sideslopes, you might have the market to yourself.

I've got a Logmaster LM2 on the way. I will be distributing Logmasters here and they are a very solid alternative to Woodmizer and Timberking. Mine should arrive late August, so I shall report back then!

Just stick to the normal 550xp. I never, ever use the chain brake in normal operation, only applying it when the slope to be climbed is so severe that I physically have climb on all fours to get up it. I really wish that they weren't so bloody militant on chainsaw courses regarding chain brake application. If your hand is on the front handle, it's practically impossible to engage throttle. All the time flicking the brake on and off is lost production time.

I am considering importing the smallest of the Logmaster sawmills into the UK (I've just placed my order for the larger LM2, which will be arriving in about 5 months, at which point my Woodmizer will be available for sale). It's a manual bandmill built much bigger and heavier than it's competitors. Broadly speaking price wise, it's fairly similar to the Hudson Oscar 228. I should be able to offer it for sale in the UK with the basic 14hp motor for about £4500 plus VAT. For comparison, here is the Oscar: Hud-son Oscar 228 Saw Mill | eBay And here is the Logmaster: Log Master As you can see, the Logmaster's capacity is larger and it's almost three times the weight. I would be offering them for sale with dealer back up, parts and CE marked. I need to get 5 orders to make it worth the while. This is just a preliminary thread to gauge interest. Anyone interested?

If you could locate yourself a bit closer to Edinburgh, I'd be happy to trial you here G. Lee and Craig speak highly of you and I for one would recommend forestry over domestic work any day! Jonathan

I'm disinclined to consider utilising and adapting an existing machine as I think that the principle of building a small basic, but tough forwarder should be doable. Basic requirements that I would regard as being paramount. * Ability to lift and extract up to 750kg product lengths, up to 4.9m in length (this translates to about a 50cm mid diameter sitka log at that length). * Ability to extract approximately 3-4 tonnes per load. * 6/8 wheel drive. * Full cab, with heater and tool storage. * Maximum weight of 2.5 tonnes gross to allow haulage to site by trailer and 3.5 tonne class vehicle. * No exposed mechanicals, ie no exposed drive shafts and minimal exposure for hydraulic lines. Beyond that, decisions would have to be made about drive. The Alstor uses drive shaft and direct chain drive, which is very effective at putting power down but at the point of articulation is very vulnerable. I like the idea of hydrostatic drive, but I must admit that I am not entirely sure how easy it would be to ensure one or more wheel wouldn't spin out, with the lack of a mechanic differential. The advantage (I feel) of hydraulic drive is that hydraulic lines are easier to protect and cheaper to replace in the event of failure. Regarding the cab, I like the idea of having the engine under the floor/seat if possible as it will lower the centre of gravity, and leave space within the length of the cab for additions such as a hydraulic winch/tool storage.

Alec, I wouldn't bother milling the top lump, not for the amount of effort that it is going to take to do it. I very much doubt that it will do anything other than move horribly when drying and you'll most likely be left with unmarketable timber. Only my 2 cents though.

Haha! Just did the quote and it was £10075 for the Navara and VW LT! I'm not even high risk - sometimes there is a benefit to speaking to people directly rather than filling in forms online, I reckon.

What do you folks out there with multiple vehicles do for insurance? I have the crappy Navara and I'm looking to buy a van to do timber deliveries/be a back up work truck when the Nissan is in the garage. My insurance is presently with Lycetts (who are very good by the way) but it's very tricky to add a second vehicle and indeed expensive as apparently you can only have no claims on one vehicle. My insurance renewal is £595 (28yrs old, 3yrs no claims, low excess, anyone over 25 can drive it etc) but looking at quotes for a 56 plate VW LT with no no claims is bringing up quotes of over £800. Anyone any suggestions to bring this down?

From what I understand, bog oak is very very difficult to dry and 90% of it is more or less worthless (due to structural defect etc). However, if you are lucky enough to find a piece that is sound and you have the means to dry it (it should be immediately kilned, not left to air dry) it can be worth quite some money. My best advice for a piece like that is cross cut it at 6m and have a good look at the end grain. If it appears sound, put the chainsaw mill away and hire in a Woodmizer (or similar) as it's the right size for the mill and you will make the money back for the hire from the extra boards you don't turn to sawdust. Some pictures would be lovely if you get a chance!

Sounds like you are felling an arboretum!

I'm not disputing that the Alstor works, but I do think that there is a huge amount of room for improvement. I'm 6ft 8 and I really struggle to fit. I stand by my observations/comments. I obviously haven't had the same amount of time on it as you but it is over priced and I am sure that there are agricultural mechanics here that could build a better machine for a lower price.

Interesting Josh that the Kranmans haven't a good reputation. I think it was a thread a while back where you mentioning them alerted me to their existence. Areleywood - glad to hear that you are doing well with yours. I don't dispute that they are quick and efficient in the right hands but there are a lot of problems with them: * They do roll easily on a side slope - watched a very experienced operator go over on very little side slope combined with a stump. * They have aspects of their design that are really poor - the brakes are awful, the gearbox is awful, there is insufficient space for a larger person to operate it comfortably or carry any tools. The underside/driveshaft is exposed. The cab option is cripplingly expensive and required if you are going to use them on FCS land. * When you actually look at the components, they aren't worth close to £40,000. Can I suggest that anyone who is skilled in this kind of agricultural welding/fabricating that there is a gap in the market for a UK built mini forwarder?

Log of that diameter and cleaness (excepting the branch on one side), it seems a shame not to quarter saw it. You would still end up with QS boards almost 3ft wide. I'm off to see a very large elm tomorrow (though a measly 5ft really) and my plan to deal with it is chainmill a top slab off, then one board. Rotate 90 degrees and repeat. Repeat on all sides until you have a squared length (with rounded corners) 42 inches in width (the throat on a 50 inch bar). Halve the log with the chainsaw mill, then ratchet strap up. Rotate 90 degrees, halve again (making sure to move the ratchets when needed) and you're left with four lovely quarters ready for resawing. Jonathan

Have used them in the past. Good concept, though the Alstor itself is too expensive, too delicate and too easy to roll. Check out the Kranman Bison - much cheaper and whilst I've not seen one in person, looks better.

That is indeed the plan, albeit in a few years once finances allow. We're going over next month for a few days to visit family and reccy the area. I am painfully aware that qualification is king over there and have a list of distance learning courses I need to do to bolster my on-paper credentials.

Agreed. If you are paying tax on that you aren't doing your taxes correctly.

I have CS30 and 31. I got my tickets on a job offer and then just started hardwood thinning and haven't stopped since. I have no qualifications relating to sawmilling or timber drying and am self taught (and have been the recipient of much help and guidance along the way from more people than I can remember to whom I am very grateful).

0.4hp and a few hundred grams

Stunning figure. My best advice would be to dry them as much as is possible before selling them. The value increases hugely. Burr oak is hard to dry, so do this: Find a very solid piece of ground to stack them ok - somewhere that will not subside. Concrete would be ideal. Run two heavy bearers parallel to the stack which the stickers can sit on. Stick the boards excessively - every 9-12 inches at most. Ensure there is a sticker on the very end of the boards and evenly spaced in between. Ensure sticker lines are perfectly vertical, place the poorest boards on top, put one final layer of stickers on and then a few (evenly spaced) paving slabs. Don't let the stack get direct sunlight, but it needs to be sheltered from the rain with decent air flow. Then sit on them for a couple of years and sell for much more than they are worth now!

They are nice boards and well sawn The pinkish tinge is quite common when the oak reacts with air. It's not brown Oak, and it's not something to worry about as it fades to the same colour as any other Oak. I would describe the boards are reasonably heavily pipped verging on burred. Pricing wise, I'd punt them at about £45 a cubic foot plus VAT. Whilst they are visually attractive, they are structurally flawed in places, and these defects only get worse with drying, not better. Get them sticked under cover, with no direct sunlight and a reasonable air flow. Leave them for about 18 months and if you wish to kiln them, do so at that point. Otherwise, shave about £10 off the cubic footage price and sell them air dried. Jonathan

Fascinating ideas brought up in that video. I'm intrigued by the idea of a woodland croft in Scotland and the thought of being able to use all of your brash and green matter from forestry activities to provide your dwelling with heat and perhaps power is enticing. The bonus of vast amounts marketable compost at the end is excellent too. Whilst there isn't a vast amount more heat available from a chip pile than burning it, there is comparatively no maintenance. Could run a kiln drying firewood by heating it from chip from the material that is too small to sell. So many of you out there sell firewood and have chip mountains it seems a no brainer.

Some people will do anything for a nose job on the NHS! Glad to hear that it wasn't more serious - make sure to post some before and afters once you are healed up so we, the public, can judge as to whether it was all worth it!

Welcome to Arbtalk Oli. First off, I know a fair number of people with the Sauno steam kiln and most seem to operate them without much trouble. I myself prefer a system where I can go in and check on my timber at any given time, so I use the kiln detailed in the kiln construction thread. That said, a furniture making friend with whom I do a lot of work and share a workshop has one, so I intermittently use it. In an ideal world, you would only kiln the same species at the same thickness with the same starting moisture content. Every species takes a very different time to dry and a mixed kiln is going to have a variety of final MCs. Try to avoid mixing Oak with other species as it just takes longer. Also, try to air dry everything for at least 6 months, and Oak for twice as long. 12% MC should be achieved at an RH of around 25%, though with oak it would be lower (around 20%). That is at 32 celcius though, so some adjustment might be required for 38 celcius. End sealed boards are fine in the kiln to the best of my knowledge, but I don't do it so can't say definitively. Jonathan