Doug Blease

There is no one course for bats. Its all about doing the time and gaining experience until you are considered experienced by your peers. This takes time. Lots of time. You cannot go messing around in tree cavities without a full batworkers license. Look at the BCT website on how to get started. Its one of the most addictive thing I have ever done. In fact I found 3 Common Pipistrelles roosting under the tiles of my house tonight. V V cool!

You are absolutely right. Yes I am of the generation who fear competition. I dont know if you saw the news report the other day that highlighted that many employers are only considering those with a 2.1 degree or higher and that there are an average 67 applications per job. Therefore, those of us that are aiming to carve out a career following a course of education are faced with massive competition. Also, who isnt fed up of being undercut by those clearly not competing on an even playing field? Anyhoo....massive derail of this thread. Sorry.

I would say the time taken depends on the complexity of the tree. A bog standard tree, not hugely exciting tree would take me 20 mins in total. I would take a few pictures incase 'the one' doesnt come out right. If you compile a standard field reporting form, rather than just taking notes, this speeds up the data insertion process. For example, you might be able to give the reporting form to a third party to insert into MS Excel or into a table in MS Word. Whilst you construct the written prose.

Are you having to run a VTA on every tree in your woodland???

Treelife do a one day report writing course. I am sure that this would more than pay itself back in the due course of 'charged for' tree assessments. I have retracted by criticisms of Hamadryad as I felt I was being too hard nosed about it, but I do genuinely feel that if businessess out there are charging for VTA, BS5837 reports etc, then they should have trained themselves in how to compile a professional report. I dont see how it is any different to someone coming on here and posting that they are charging for practical tree work, without having the basic pre-required skills to complete the job to the industry recognised standard. We would be the first to tell them that they were in the wrong, and they were damaging the industry. Doug

Your first one will take FOREVER. Loads of editing. The next one will be a bit smoother, the next will be smoother and quicker, the following will be a piece of cake! Good luck. Get someone you trust to review it for grammar/spelling etc. There is always something you miss because your eyes dont pick up the minor mistakes after a while. All the best H. Doug

Very cool Rich! Liking your work.

Hamadryad, It sounds like you can get a decent template for free from the Woodland Trust or the FC. I haven't carried out a woodland 'condition' survey. I have written woodland 'statements' . These include a: Title page; Contents; Summary; Scope; Background to the woodland or plantation; Desk Study; Phase 1 habitat survey, possible NVC if you think that might be required or paid for; A full species list; Description of the dominant species; European Protected Species Survey; applicable policy/legislation and mitigation; Discussion about future operations to meet the owners aims; and Appendices What is the ultimate purpose of your survey? Development? Planning? Woodland management plan? etc etc I understand that you are in the dark a bit with regards this job, I am sorry for firing off at you about it. I just took umbridge to the fact that it does take a LONG time to develop report writing techniques (I am still learning). But I have in the past felt tarnished with your anti-Degree standard approach. So felt a little insulted then to read your request for free help, which, in all honesty, I feel is likely to come from a consultant with a Degree level education. A template is all very well but it not YOUR report. This is something that someone of your knowledge and experience will want to develop personally. Even though you are a subby- I would demand direct contact with the customer to ensure a high quality of service. You will need this for your Background and Desk Study any way. Apologies again Doug

The above is true but you have to write a report which ticks a number of boxes and that might be read by a variety of people with differing interests in different parts of the report. The idea of the exec summary is that those who do not need to read the repetition withi the body of the text. The difference becomes apparant if your report is torn apart by a planning commitee or legal representative. Robustness and justification is the key. Its not all about the results.

Hamadryad, I think I get so passionate about the subject of Education because I am in the same shoes as you with regards the feeling of doing years of hard labour knowing you have a bit more to offer. I also understand what it costs to study for that piece of paper. But please embrace the fact that no matter how knowledgeable you are (far more than myself and many others on this site), you would still benefit from every educational course you applied yourself to and be able to offer yet more to the industry. I do feel that there are enough hours in the day for you to develop yourself professionally. Afterall, you have over 4000 posts on here. You would be more than capable of doing something like the Tech Cert in your spare time. I am going to do it when I finish my degree. Yes this site is about sharing. But this industry is still a business and a very difficult one to carve out a career in. Therefore when you are aiming higher you are exploiting a smaller niche. I for one dont feel comfortable giving my hard earned report templates away for free because I worked so hard to compile them. They are as valuable to me as my ropes and tools. I am sure you realise a generic report might include: A Summary with key findings (usually written last but published first) A Remit Background Introduction Scope Project description Methodology Desk study including legislation and policy Results Discussion/ Non obligatory recommendations Appendices Is your report a Woodland Statement? As in current biotic occurances within your site? If so, someone of your Botanical/Ecological knowledge could write a report from scratch in no time.

I think this response about sums it up really. I dont think ANYONE should stick to just climbing, I have never said it and I have offered endless encouragement to those who wish to diversify their skills and develop their professional portfolio. For example, I spent weeks researching stuff for a guy on here wanting to get into Bat work and sent it to him with no remorse. The reason being he was proactively bettering himself through committing to an education as well as working. I view this public forum as a place for healthy debate and to raise the important issues which face this image of our industry. I never said you were unable to assess a tree using any method you wish. I simply highlighted that for all your knowledge, you admit to being unable to complile this report. If I was in this situation, I would go and learn how to do it. Not ask for free templates from those who have gone through such a process, often at some expense. Do I think I am better than you? Why do you ask that? I said at the very beginning that we have a habit of not agreeing and I think this is due to our differing backgrounds. This to me means that we both have qualities to offer the industry. I am simply disagreeing with your approach. I never said that all consultancy should be only carried out by degree holders. I did say that you have in the past criticised this level of education in terms of the ability to carry out effective, robust consultancy. To be factual, I said that I feel report writing is an important part of the assessment process and that you should be comfortable with this before providing the service. To me, you have highlighted is that report writing isnt actually that easy. I was hoping this would have changed your views on those who have written reports that you have been critical of in the past. Believe it or not, I do actually have an enormous amount of respect for your Biological/Ecological knowledge and in particular your skills with fungi. I am sorry if you feel patronised, this was never my intention, this hopefully is apparent from my apologies for sounding harsh in the first response. I think if you had offered to purchase a template from someone, you would have had different response. Sorry again for putting a downer on the subject. DB

I agree with what your saying there. I know where to get report templates, and in the long run I personalise templates to suit the type of report I am writing. But then I have gone and slogged through an education programme which has taught me how to do that. All I am highlighting is that if he is offering a consultancy type of service without the knowledge of where to accrue templates or even what should be scoped into a report. Then he should be advising his customer to contact a suitably informed, qualified professional, consultant. I welcome his response and I am awaiting our usual differing views with the respect of a healthy debate.

Hama, I am conscious that me and you have not always agreed on best pratice etc and I think this is due to our different backgrounds in the industry. However I have noticed that you often critisise the Degree holding consultants which you have been faced with over the years. Claiming that you could do a better job but your lack of a qualification is holding you back. I find it a little bit hypocritical that you then proceed to ask on an internet forum for report templates so that you can complete a Woodland survey for a customer. I know this sounds a little harsh, but in fairness you have been blunt to others in the past also. If you are unable to write a report, you should'nt be offering this service to your customer and you shouldnt claim to be able to carry out robust consultancy work. You say that it "aint like you cant assess trees". Sorry mate, but writing the report is all part of the assessment process.

Print screen it into MS paint. Click the crop icon Crop the area and click within the cropped area Right click, copy and paste. I tend to paste it into Powerpoint then you can manipulate it, add borders, labels and title. Print it off.

Keely at Treelife. Thank you very much for all inputs. Doug

Again, Who/Where is the best place to contact with regards The Tech Cert for this time next year? DB

I woud like to do something which will make me fully conversant with BS 5837. Is this the course for me? I understand the commitment to study, and I find it very rewarding.

Must admit, I feel a bit let down that I took the time to put together a heartfelt reply to your situation. You spend more time being arrogant than you do being grateful to those who see your point of view. I will gladly never employ someone so arrogant. This is a team job, and arrogance and ego has no place in a team environment. In my experience it breeds mis understanding and dangerous working practices. I wish your new employer all the luck in the world.

Nice one mate, I am sure it will work out for you.

I am very interested in doing the Level 4 Tech Cert in 2011 after I have completed my Honours Degree. Where do I begin? Who do I contact?

Cheers. Thanks for the reply.

I wonder who had been pruning it in the past (see crown lift cuts), if they had noticed anything at the time and made any recommendations. Shame, it was a nice tree! At least the place gets some PUBlicity........

For those (including myself) who are interested in this qualification, would you be prepared to describe how you found the whole process? What was actually involved? An example of your exam questions? Out of interest, what direct effect will completing the tech cert have on your employment/business? I have looked into it, but it would be interesting to hear first hand experience. Doug

Might as well keep bidding....£120 from me!

Pleasure mate. I am working with Bats all summer and it is an addictive and fascinating subject. I still have loads to learn. Feel free to ask me anything you want. If I dont know then I will find out for you as I am working with a VERY knowledgeable person for the next three months. Dont give up on the idea. I have said this before on another post. Tree Climbing/Surgery is only a job, you need to add to it to make a career out of Trees in general. Do some reading on Veteran trees and look at Andrew Cowans research on Bats and Arboriculture. You will be amazed at the scope of work.