treeseer

Doh! I totally forgot. Vegetation management it is then. I'll go back to tree care.

Possibly/Probably so, IF closure is not complete, and only at a pace determined by fungus-tree interaction. Could be verrry slow, see sig line below, could be speedy.

without seeing crown hard to say re fert--if treee was just thinned--does a "proper thinning" mean interior was gutted?-- then fert would add a lot of end growth which aggravates the stability concern so sounds counterproductive. re mulch, why tell owners they should give up lawn (which they like so much they just paid to thin crown to get light in), with need/benefit uncertain. there will be lots of resistance to that notion; better to fight another battle? most important to keep flare clear--mulching that area would favor the decay fungus would it not? establishing objective first helps guide treatment options and we don't have owner here so...

Challenge authority. Incite controversy. Shred the envelope, where it is weak. But be nice. I've only been chided by a moderator once when things got a tad heated. My instigator/victim got out of the kitchen, but i still come around, for the victuals here nourish me mind. Thanks Steve for pulling the rotten apples out of the garden.

Buttress roots look very strong. The tree stands on them, not the core. Rotten or not, the heartwood is pretty much dead. Depending on prognosis of fungal activity, perhaps start reducing, especially where lean is toward target. And in any case remove turf 6" to avoid mower damage and give the trunk some breathing room.

"there is over a third of the trunk is in decay, regardless of the compartmentlisation." Well, a % is affected by fungus; not sure what "in decay" means "If the tree had an resistograpgh done, would you have had it dismantled?" well i'd prefer a tomograph, but either way, probably not. Depends on species, condition, and most importantly owner's objective. the amount of support lost to fungal activity seems well compensated for by wall 4. It's what's outside that counts the most, structurally speaking. "Also could have the tree continued to live if the walls closed over?" by the looks of the closure--vigorous--it surely seems so. " And eventually the side walls would close over where the bracket exists to form a partially hollow trunk?" maybe not hollow at all; if denied oxygen, fungal activity would cease, and the affected wood's degradation would stop at its present state of development. i'm not an expert on these species but that's how it looks from here.

Agreed, "bleeding" is a fleeting aesthetic concern. Far more important is to see the tree and manage the dose--got a picture??

Stubby, I see the hard line enclosing the spalting was the limit of the penetration. What do you see?

Thank you for an excellent example of compartmentalization, and the folly of condemning trees based on conks alone. The extent of wall 4 growth indicates the tree has stopped the fungus in its tracks, and they are--were--coexisting amicably. Never heard of Rigidous (sp?) before; ya learn sumthin new every day, if yer eyes are open!

If ivy is potential hanitat for bats etc should it not stay? Good to hear of you supervisin pb; fit you well i expect Beats cutting stumps with a silky in any case

As you say we could look at that and say whoa Even knowing of laetiporus it looks maybe excessive But the proof will be in the regrowth, gradual is good, panic not In any case beats felling

Easy to see why; that layering process moves the tree smartly across the land. The sculpture is gorgeous; thanks for kindly posting!

pretty colored fung. would be keen to see what the resi shows; maybe not much if the strike is not old. cracks are sometimes seen better with resi than tomo... where cracks are the features of greatest concern, perhaps a rough pull test from different angles, whilst observing movement in the crack up close? just a thot--fraxinus are quick to split ime, if unpruned that is.

From your list it is clear that the objective that you describe is 1 to create habitat for saproxylic sp. and 2 to maintain a viable tree for its other contributions. iow, managing the vegetation for the sake of other species. My assignment is typically the reverse, so my cuts are designed more with the tree in mind. nothing wrong with vegetation management, but for me and my clients the tree is primary value to grow. So intentional additional wounding is the exception and not the rule. From all I know (but i don't know it all ), there can be plenty of habitat still if we make cuts to promote closure instead of rot. But what we are called to do depends on the objective/assignment.

ok thanks i get it now but still i know nothing about the quantity of sprouts being the objective of pruning. i'll study up a bit on that.

"the bladed tools are 'glamourised' because they don't give a smooth cut, which stimulates more growth," This hypothesis has been floating about for some time, but according to all available studies it has never been shown to be true. Your entire post seems predicated on a premise that lacks validity. "which is what you want on a pollard" well that depends on what the objective is and where the growth is. " I know this is a bit like telling your gran to suck eggs." not sure what this means but it does not sound nice--or accurate. "chainsaws are easier"???? this is seldom the case ime. If reducing to nodes with hand/polesaws has not been tried, perhaps it could be included in the next round of study.

first road up the hill; i'll try to dig up pics; "can't miss" the tree, it hangs over the road.

Yes, basal rot etc. causes need for late-in-life pollarding cuts; or a hard reduction. Lozzatrees, in Sevenoaks just uphill a stones throw from the train station is a lime with basal issues on the corner--did that one ever get pruned?

Thanks yes i figured the reasons were historical, which is all good, but limits usefulness of the research for the future. The humble woodsman of 2013 can more easily access and use a polesaw or handsaw than a chainsaw. Using the chainsaw as the preferred tool in the studies seems to go out of the way to give advantage to--or glamorize?--the bladed tools. by thunder it smacks of classism and discriminates against those of limited means (or in some cases a bias against those noisy stinking greasy hi-mtc boat anchors). i used to have a helper who cranked up the stihl to whack every 1 cm twig; drove me nuts. it's obvious i have yet to recover.

"Only a very distant vague memory of that one, any pointers as to where it was?" the oak was said to be ~1000 years old; i got the pics from mr. gairn april 2011 as i was researching the article. that's all i got sorry. Great questions by ARob; there is much work to be done to tighten up specs so we are not left with ~>500mm as a quasiguideline, or tree pruning is merely left up to "the professional's discretion", neither of which bode well for successful outcomes imo. re implements, i have a bias against chainsaws and only use them per need, much preferring handsaw or pole tools. so i have to wonder why the only tools considered in some research are chainsaws or "bladed tools" aka axes, or maybe halberds like that dwarf in the hobbit movies lugged around. trees are not orcs for goshsakes. unless the criteria for the study are more historical than arboricultural; that i could understand.

"i think iam going to reduce and balance cat 1 tree,s and lightly reduce cat 2 tree,s and then maybey light thin on the cat 3 tree." Formulating care protocols according to tree condition--the only way to go! a trick i like to use on whippy trees is to pull the next tree/branch toward me using rope or polesaw (perhaps lashed to saddle) to stabilise. "probably do sum tommorrow so may put up sum shots (or not!) depending how they look:lol: as there seems to be some reduction artists on arbtalk..." well this wannabe artiste/artisan/artful codger knows that not all trees can be masterpieces, so i'd go easy on ya. Even those of us who are intimately connected to the infinity in the cosmos are still quite limited on the earthly realm, acknowledged or not. I get a heapin' helpin' of humble pie too often to dream otherwise...

"At the end of the day you can only advice and then at least you have been honest with your client ,... just put across your concerns regarding how the trees will respond to a reduction, either badly or really badly (death) explain what costs are involved with all options and the extra cost involved if its felled for whatever reason shortly after..." Before we express concerns perhaps we should first consider what they are based on. If we have limited experience (and we all have limited expreience) then we do not know what other treatments may lead to. So what seems like honest advice may be biased and might mislead. " One other problem with thinning Gums , they tend not to have even branch formation much of the branch development occurs towards the branch tip making it difficult to leave a good form, Lion tailing could result" true, so reduction may be better. "Branches identified for retention could be damaged while working around the canopy ." true, gotta be careful. " Don't forget those trees look like babys to me and all that they want to do is be massive and bigger than the closely planted mates." true, like most trees. High climbing ability and the right gear (poles if not mewp!) are needed. Again this is commonly done in euc land; i'll try to dig up some details...

Tony is spot on here. How much/many to leave depends on vigor, species, size and condition. The french call them tirants de seve; P. Balie wrote about this in 1933. ! Revue des eaux et Forets. any french speakers help w that? I pollard Lagerstroemia here and leave sap risers according to how well the knuckle is callusing. Just 2 or 3 nodes out can make a difference. We are pruning for lasting tree health here right; the look of a "finger" here and there per need is something gaffers (don't they work in the movies?) have to just get used to.

Jesse maybe this experience came from reducing too hard. In australia they are very commonly reduced 10-20% with no bushy reaction. Objective should be clear first--what kind of shrubs and how much light is required? if trees have adapted to lean then stability concerns seem overblown. Climb ahap and use pole pruner/saw maybe. a little goes a long way. How cold do you expect it will get there? ideal timing may be after the coldest day of the winter.

Good to see most of the cuts to nodes, and none shredded, given that the objective is more tree health than beastie habitat. Having been often on the other end I know it's much easier to critique than to do the cutting, but impossible to critique intelligently without seeing the "before"s and knowing the objectives. So no comment on the severity and the big horizontal cuts (knowing the tree does not always give great choices) until seeing that AA paper, which will have the specs yes? Finally time to subscribe to that rag--when does that issue come out?