Pete Mctree

Dropped out of uni without a clue what to do. Saw a trainee climber job advertised at the dole office offering the princely some of £10 on top my giro to learn. I was not scared of hard work and it seemed like a good idea getting paid to climb trees, so without an idea what it was about, I applied.

That was about 27 years ago…….

The pay/reward system in the UK is so screwed. I know of appallingly poor climbers and cutters getting paid £250 per day on HS2 and local companies offering good ones £12.00 per hour.

I pay a minimum of £150 per day to my cutters when I need them - I pay them more if I can. £150 will hardly keep a roof over there heads in most places - I will break that down a bit;

£20 fuel to and from work

£20 to fill a combican

£5 towards chain, bar sprocket

£3  towards ppe 

£3 towards saw

£5 food and drink

- that comes to £56 and there are plenty of things omitted. 

Even at those figures I am only paying a qualified s/employed cutter £11.30ish an hour? 

This bullshit economic system we have sure knowns how to punish those who want to work for a living

1 hour ago, Retired Climber said:

Ah, yes, I have to admit it does a bit doesn't it. My motivation for posting, however, is much more genuine. 

The post I quoted implied that one would need to work very hard in that specific industry, simply to consistently make 150 quid per day. My lack of understanding of why anyone would bother is genuine. Anyone who can slave away cutting all day would easily be capable of earning a lot more, doing a lot less work. Domestic fencing is an obvious example; a couple of hundred quid a day is very easily achievable. Equally, a spot of gardening for decent clients will allow anyone decent to be charging around 300 quid a day with only a hedge cutter and a few hand tools. 

You live in Hampshire- 75% of the country has significantly less money. Your being a little naive with your pricing unfortunately 

Petzl vertex. Well constructed and comfortable and the muff visor mounts are good.

Hope you sold the timber as the finest yellow ash 😂

13 hours ago, 5thelement said:

The most recent version of the NPTC Small Tree Felling certification requires the candidate to explain/describe a whole series of felling cuts including step cut, spear cut , 80-20 front cut, V-cut, split level, standard fell, Danish cut, Dogs Tooth and when each cut is to be used, they also have to describe the cuts and their uses when doing their Ariel cutting certificate.

As an instructor I spend a lot of time explaining the physics of the cuts. Dimensions, hinge length/thickness, sink depth etc on the whiteboard before demonstrating all these cuts and their application.

The candidates will be expected to carry out these cuts using the correct methods, for the given tree bias, and will need to show this when being independently assessed.

 

Maybe it has been a long time since you did any training?

 

And the back cut doesn’t need to be higher than the sink.

I have been in the industry for well over 25 years and yes, I am current with updates 

This issue is something I have observed over many years, both those trained within industry and especially those who have come through college based apprenticeships - specifically I am thinking of two individuals who have both been trained and assessed within the last 4 years - so I am only speaking from recent observations . They can both cut accurately and with some proficiency however they were never taught the physics and why, just the “how”. It is this lack of “why” that presents the danger as the inability to make informed decisions is a serious handicap in life and tree work, as not everything in the world works when formula are applied across the board. 
I do welcome your approach to education, but I suggest you may be in the minority, as those I see leaving the institutions are not achieving what an employer or industry requires - which is a whole other subject ( &. I understand that it is impossible to deliver in the time frame and the funding available)

Sorry for the rambling rant, however I still say that training and education is holding back Arb and forestry in both productivity and safety .

Oh and I agree that the back cut does not need to be higher than the sink cut, but you need to know when…..🙃👍

There seems to be plenty of tree workers that can accomplish 80% of the tasks - it's the ones that can do the rest that are scarce.

I put a large amount of blame at the doors of those who construct the training and certification. It simply churns out certified and barely competent individuals, who may be able to complete a task, but have little understanding of the process they are undertaking.

eg they can fell a tree, but have no idea why the back-cut should be higher than the sink, why the bottom of the sink should be level etc etc etc

If we do not give those learning the knowledge to make effective decisions, then this industry is not going to change and progress. Perhaps like many do, it is better to employ cheap semi-skilled labour and simply do not even attempt to undertake the bigger, more difficult tasks - in essence be a glorified gardener and conifer topper.

Why do they not spin the other way I wonder? There would be zero burrs and a better edge. Different wheel more than likely 

Perhaps it’s Mr Elcoat that is the parasite ? Feeding off wannabe AA approved contractors and the AA themselves.
Either way it is sad illustration of how little the AA values the majority of the industry.

The block face was developed when chainsaws could not cut on an angle. Two parallel cuts were made and the gob was simply broken out with hand tools.

It can be a useful cut, especially for backleaners as the hinge holds for a long time - in affect  a full width sizwheel 

I think it will perform similar to the square ground.

If you do test them side by side, try including diagonal cuts as not all cutting is cross grain 👍

@Steve Bullman might be worth an ask 

I got some this week. Not tried it yet, but If I have time I will vid some cuts against conventional chain and Oregon square ground - will be interesting for sure (well I’m geeky enough to be interested 😂)

The textile is a very important part - if it was to fail it would cause the prussic/grab to slip uncontrolled to the end potentially causing a slip or short fall. 

10 hours ago, Joe Newton said:

 

 

Any insight into how its better than just a thick hinge? I thought less potential for a barber chair if there's a really strong pull, but not sure if that checks out. 

It works by allowing the hinge fibres to flex significantly more before they break or pull, so increasing the strength/duration before failing. The cut shown on the vid set up a 2nd hinge behind the first and the relief cut allowing them to both flex.

As for creating a barbers chair - there is still the potential but because the hinge is more flexible you can leave it thicker

Never cut as many as that, but I will put one or 2 plunge cuts in to help a corner hold. I heard about it on the treehouse a few years ago I think.

One of those trick cuts that help but not to be relied upon completely.  You still need strong basic felling skills as a foundation before you try anything like this, which sadly 90% of arbs neglect to invest the time and effort into.

I bet we replace the lying, dishonest, over privileged narcissistic clown with a lying, dishonest, over privileged narcissist who may or may not be a clown 

20 minutes ago, woody paul said:

You got to chip a lot of stuff to see money back. 

Or get through an immense amount of chipping in a short time. 

I don’t agree with turning the oiler down. Too much oil is the least of the problems in many regards. Especially if you are cutting ash or any deadwood and it really helps reduce bar wear long term.

Well as of early June I can officially post on this thread - been grumpy enough for a while though 😂

There are quite a few of these working in the UK and I personally know a couple of people who do very well with them. A lot is down to contract size and specs, for example if you are doing a large number of roadside ash tree, then this would be perfect 

540 performs well providing it is kept warm, which is a huge issue. Sold mine and went back to the 200t 

After turning 50 a few weeks ago I am looking at a scanner stairlift - let the children climb 😂