Win a year's supply of Aspen fuel at the Arb Show 2019

Anyone up for the challenge then?

Do you have to be in full PPE? 

In forestry I use 15 to  20l per week,

"average arborist using 70 litres a year this would mean an increase of only £1.56 per week"

Using silky saws?

I’d say 70 litres was about right for me. Possibly less even.

cant compare arb work to forestry when it comes to fuel usage 

we use approx. 500 lt a year

Between how many people Ian? I bet it works out not far off 70 per person when you break it down 

When on softwood cutting, my cutters are doing 40 litres a week. Even processing blown hardwoods with winching it's 20 litres a week. 

I understand the appeal of Aspen for the occasional user who doesn't want it to go off, but it's a luxury for most full-time professionals.

On 04/05/2019 at 10:45, IronMike said:

Do you have to be in full PPE? 

Hi Mike,

There is no requirement for any special clothing, you can take part in your underwear if it makes you feel more comfortable...

On 04/05/2019 at 22:21, Big J said:

When on softwood cutting, my cutters are doing 40 litres a week. Even processing blown hardwoods with winching it's 20 litres a week. 

I understand the appeal of Aspen for the occasional user who doesn't want it to go off, but it's a luxury for most full-time professionals.

 

Hi Big J,

No doubt you use much more fuel in heavy forestry work. For this reason, using alkylate fuels is even more important as your workers will be getting the highest exposure of harmful emissions during their day to day work. As an employer you have a duty of care to look after them.

The original founder of Aspen came up with the idea of creating a cleaner fuel for chainsaws after reading a report on the harsh working conditions of forestry workers in Sweden which was linked to a much higher risk of cancer due to the emissions they breathed in on a daily basis.

On 04/05/2019 at 22:12, Steve Bullman said:

Between how many people Ian? I bet it works out not far off 70 per person when you break it down 

between 4 of us Steve

Can I wear a long sleeve and not take questions on why I can’t bend my arm?

14 hours ago, JonnyRFT said:

Can I wear a long sleeve and not take questions on why I can’t bend my arm?

Thanks for the heads up on your plans to cheat haha. 

On 07/05/2019 at 12:58, Aspen@AAOIL said:

Hi Big J,

 

No doubt you use much more fuel in heavy forestry work. For this reason, using alkylate fuels is even more important as your workers will be getting the highest exposure of harmful emissions during their day to day work. As an employer you have a duty of care to look after them.

 

The original founder of Aspen came up with the idea of creating a cleaner fuel for chainsaws after reading a report on the harsh working conditions of forestry workers in Sweden which was linked to a much higher risk of cancer due to the emissions they breathed in on a daily basis.

 

 

I'm not posting to troll, but I'm trying to figure out when your fuel is so very much more expensive than forecourt petrol. 

So £0.58 of every litre of petrol goes to the exchequer in the form of fuel duty. Then there is also 20% VAT which is charged on the base cost and the duty. The base cost of a litre of petrol is around £0.50. The VAT takes it up to about £1.30.

Now a quality 2 stroke oil (like Husqvara XP) is about £10.80/l, so £1.08 per 100ml of oil, and working out at around £0.22 per litre.

So couple that with a base cost of £0.50 for the petrol, you have a cost price, before tax of £0.72 per litre. 

The cheapest I can find aspen for is about £2.90 per litre plus VAT, and I'd have to spend almost a thousand pounds up front for 270 litres. I'm not sure what the legality of storing that is either. £0.58 of that is duty, so that means production cost is £2.32, which makes is almost 4 times as expensive before any tax than standard fuel.

Assuming a production cutter is using 7 litres a day, 35 litres a week for about 45 weeks a year, they'd spend around £2500 on normal petrol and over £4500 on Aspen. More frustrating is the disparity in terms of what you're actually charging for it before taxes, where it's 4 times as expensive.

I appreciate that there are extra costs with (relatively) low volume production, packaging and producing a healthier fuel, but how do you justify the 4 fold price hike? Genuinely interested, not trolling.

12 hours ago, Big J said:

I'm not posting to troll, but I'm trying to figure out when your fuel is so very much more expensive than forecourt petrol. 

 

So £0.58 of every litre of petrol goes to the exchequer in the form of fuel duty. Then there is also 20% VAT which is charged on the base cost and the duty. The base cost of a litre of petrol is around £0.50. The VAT takes it up to about £1.30.

Now a quality 2 stroke oil (like Husqvara XP) is about £10.80/l, so £1.08 per 100ml of oil, and working out at around £0.22 per litre.

So couple that with a base cost of £0.50 for the petrol, you have a cost price, before tax of £0.72 per litre. 

The cheapest I can find aspen for is about £2.90 per litre plus VAT, and I'd have to spend almost a thousand pounds up front for 270 litres. I'm not sure what the legality of storing that is either. £0.58 of that is duty, so that means production cost is £2.32, which makes is almost 4 times as expensive before any tax than standard fuel.

Assuming a production cutter is using 7 litres a day, 35 litres a week for about 45 weeks a year, they'd spend around £2500 on normal petrol and over £4500 on Aspen. More frustrating is the disparity in terms of what you're actually charging for it before taxes, where it's 4 times as expensive.

I appreciate that there are extra costs with (relatively) low volume production, packaging and producing a healthier fuel, but how do you justify the 4 fold price hike? Genuinely interested, not trolling.

Good post.  I suspect the answer lies in supply and demand and market conditions rather than anything else.  If you can get away with charging £X for your product you will, not because this is the true cost, but because you can.  It would be interesting to know what the cost is in different parts of the world.  What is the cost in the USA and Canada?

11 hours ago, Big J said:

...

Hi Big J,

you are correct in that there is £0.58 of fuel duty on both regular petrol and alkylate fuel although hopefully in the future we can get a reduction when the UK government realise the health benefits of alkylate fuel.

In regard to the cost difference, there are lots of reasons why Alkylate fuel is more expensive than regular petrol. It is however important to note that Aspen is not the only company offering this type of fuel although it is the market leader. We have competitors and we have to stay competitive to win our customers business.

Producing a cleaner and superior fuel comes at a cost. Aspen only contains around 10 components vs regular petrol which contains over 100. The 90 components we choose not to use are the cheapest and also the most damaging to the human body so if you want a better fuel, it puts the price up unfortunately. I could write about this all day but to simplify things, Aspen is the fillet steak of petrol whereas what you buy at a forecourt is the whole cow put in a blender, hooves and all.

Volume supplied is also a big factor which makes this type of fuel more expensive. whilst 50 million litres produced by Aspen sounds a lot. this is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of fuel used throughout Europe and the process of putting it into packages, distribution and retail again adds to the cost. Petrol stations are happy to sell fuel with 3-4p per litre profit as they make a killing when you also buy a newspaper, coffee and chocolate which they have a huge mark up on.

It is however unfair to compare the prices of the fuels without fuel duty as there is no way to get around not paying this. Therefore using aspen fuel is not 4 times the cost as you make it out to be. I do understand your question about making it easier to understand the actual cost of the fuel without fuel duty and we could list the prices without the fuel duty but this would be more confusing for most people (petrol stations don't do this). Why on earth our fuel gets subject to road fuel duty is beyond me but that is a government issue which we can only try our best to resolve in the future once a solution to brexit has been decided on.

Buying Aspen in bulk which shouldn't be an issue for a business user, the cost per litre ranges from £2.45-£2.64 + vat. As for storage regulations, their are lots of different storage options to comply with regulations which we can always help advise on.

using your example of oil pricing above which works out at around 22p per litre. mixing your own unleaded 2-stroke mix may cost around £1.30-£1.40 + vat (depending on local fuel cost and deal you get on the oil) this is actually slightly less than twice the cost and not 4 times the price.

 Then the real question is what do you get when you pay 90% more for fuel?

• Healthy staff who are not breathing in carcinogenic emissions all day long
• Free delivery to your site = no time wasted going to collect fuel
• ready mixed fuel = no chance of damaged machinery due to wrong or bad mixing and no time wasted doing this
• Cleaner emissions which are also better for the environment
• Longer lasting machinery which stay extremely clean on the inside leading to better performance over time
• long shelf life = no worries of having machines sitting around for longer periods and not starting when you need them

when you take into account the benefits, it starts to even out the cost more and more. It wont work out cheaper for everyone but you cant put a price on health.

Are you coming to the arbshow? if so then come and try to win yourself a free trial and see the benefits for yourself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

9 hours ago, Aspen@AAOIL said:

Hi Big J,

 

you are correct in that there is £0.58 of fuel duty on both regular petrol and alkylate fuel although hopefully in the future we can get a reduction when the UK government realise the health benefits of alkylate fuel.

 

In regard to the cost difference, there are lots of reasons why Alkylate fuel is more expensive than regular petrol. It is however important to note that Aspen is not the only company offering this type of fuel although it is the market leader. We have competitors and we have to stay competitive to win our customers business.

 

Producing a cleaner and superior fuel comes at a cost. Aspen only contains around 10 components vs regular petrol which contains over 100. The 90 components we choose not to use are the cheapest and also the most damaging to the human body so if you want a better fuel, it puts the price up unfortunately. I could write about this all day but to simplify things, Aspen is the fillet steak of petrol whereas what you buy at a forecourt is the whole cow put in a blender, hooves and all.

 

Volume supplied is also a big factor which makes this type of fuel more expensive. whilst 50 million litres produced by Aspen sounds a lot. this is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of fuel used throughout Europe and the process of putting it into packages, distribution and retail again adds to the cost. Petrol stations are happy to sell fuel with 3-4p per litre profit as they make a killing when you also buy a newspaper, coffee and chocolate which they have a huge mark up on.

 

It is however unfair to compare the prices of the fuels without fuel duty as there is no way to get around not paying this. Therefore using aspen fuel is not 4 times the cost as you make it out to be. I do understand your question about making it easier to understand the actual cost of the fuel without fuel duty and we could list the prices without the fuel duty but this would be more confusing for most people (petrol stations don't do this). Why on earth our fuel gets subject to road fuel duty is beyond me but that is a government issue which we can only try our best to resolve in the future once a solution to brexit has been decided on.

 

Buying Aspen in bulk which shouldn't be an issue for a business user, the cost per litre ranges from £2.45-£2.64 + vat. As for storage regulations, their are lots of different storage options to comply with regulations which we can always help advise on.

 

using your example of oil pricing above which works out at around 22p per litre. mixing your own unleaded 2-stroke mix may cost around £1.30-£1.40 + vat (depending on local fuel cost and deal you get on the oil) this is actually slightly less than twice the cost and not 4 times the price.

 

 Then the real question is what do you get when you pay 90% more for fuel?

 

• Healthy staff who are not breathing in carcinogenic emissions all day long
• Free delivery to your site = no time wasted going to collect fuel
• ready mixed fuel = no chance of damaged machinery due to wrong or bad mixing and no time wasted doing this
• Cleaner emissions which are also better for the environment
• Longer lasting machinery which stay extremely clean on the inside leading to better performance over time
• long shelf life = no worries of having machines sitting around for longer periods and not starting when you need them

 

when you take into account the benefits, it starts to even out the cost more and more. It wont work out cheaper for everyone but you cant put a price on health.

 

Are you coming to the arbshow? if so then come and try to win yourself a free trial and see the benefits for yourself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail. Very informative. I'm much too tired to say anything meaningful by way of response but just wanted to acknowledge your post.

On 08/05/2019 at 22:03, Big J said:

 

Thank you.

any other questions don't hesitate to give us a call

21 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Good post.  I suspect the answer lies in supply and demand and market conditions rather than anything else.  If you can get away with charging £X for your product you will, not because this is the true cost, but because you can.  It would be interesting to know what the cost is in different parts of the world.  What is the cost in the USA and Canada?

Not sure on USA as it is very new there but in canada it appears to cost between $37-$42 dollars for a 5L can so compared to pump fuel prices, using Aspen in canada is much more expensive than in Europe.

Hope to see many fellow arbtalkers come along and take part in the competition over the next couple of days!

And the winning time was?

...still holding it apparently!

Sorry to keep you all waiting!

What a fantastic turnout we had at the show!

we had over 180 contestants take part and we ended up giving away all of the spot prizes as the arb show atendees where way stronger than we had anticipated when we set out the prize target times ?

The overall winner was Tom Smith who managed a crazy 4 minutes and 10 seconds! 

Well done Tom and everyone else who came and took part or shared their Aspen stories with us.

we may have to do this again.... hint hint