Elm Reduction

[Mesterh]

Be sure to post pics mate, so we can properly rip you to shreds from our armchairs!

 

 

Oh indeed

 

 

yeah but in the good old days they used the wood for stuff, so 5 years growth wasnt much use to them:001_tongue:

 

 

Ahh the good old days when folk didnt need to worry about bits snapping off there tree then getting sued because it nearly hit someone!

 

No doubt there were more smiles and less stress back then, and more wood too

[fen01]

Be sure to post pics mate, so we can properly rip you to shreds from our armchairs!

 

Ha ha , Sure will, but won't be until the end of the month. I shall brace myself...

 

BBB, unfortunately the lie of the ground won't open up the views, so it to be lowered.

 

Is there any thing that you can do to reduce the chances of DED taking hold?

[gmanntpo]

I agree with Big Boss Beechwood..

 

This work is topping and I'm a little worried to find others still thinking this pratice is acceptable, when modern arb has discouraged it for the last 25 years...

 

Lets look at the facts:

 

- As Big Boss says. The flush of highly vigourous regrowth is not a sign of good health. It is a panic reaction by the tree to try and compensate for the loss of energy producing crown area. If energy reserves are good, then the regrowth will succeed, thus creating a denser crown than if the tree had not been topped (great for repeat business I know, but piss poor practice in modern arb), if the energy reserves are not good, then the tree will die. Energy stored as starches are not just in the roots, but in the whole structure of the tree, hence massive loss of stored energy with topping.

 

- The large pruning wounds created overwhelm the trees defences and are easily colonisied by decay fungi and other tree pathogens. Thus they decay and the SULE of the tree is ruined.

 

- As Big boss said, the regrowth comes from adventious buds under the bark around the topping points, thus they are structurally much weaked than natural growing stems and more likely to fail. Not a problem on small trees but a big problem on large regrowth.

 

I will quote Alex Shigo from his book 'Modern Arboriculture' ... 'Topping is a crime against nature. If a tree must be topped, then it is time for a new tree. Customer education is a major way to stop this practice. It will not be easy..'

 

Without wishing to sound harsh, maybe some in the industry also need to be reminded of this as well as the customer.

 

Cheers!

[skyhuck]

I agree with Big Boss Beechwood..

 

This work is topping and I'm a little worried to find others still thinking this pratice is acceptable, when modern arb has discouraged it for the last 25 years...

 

Lets look at the facts:

 

- As Big Boss says. The flush of highly vigourous regrowth is not a sign of good health. It is a panic reaction by the tree to try and compensate for the loss of energy producing crown area. If energy reserves are good, then the regrowth will succeed, thus creating a denser crown than if the tree had not been topped (great for repeat business I know, but piss poor practice in modern arb), if the energy reserves are not good, then the tree will die. Energy stored as starches are not just in the roots, but in the whole structure of the tree, hence massive loss of stored energy with topping.

 

- The large pruning wounds created overwhelm the trees defences and are easily colonisied by decay fungi and other tree pathogens. Thus they decay and the SULE of the tree is ruined.

 

- As Big boss said, the regrowth comes from adventious buds under the bark around the topping points, thus they are structurally much weaked than natural growing stems and more likely to fail. Not a problem on small trees but a big problem on large regrowth.

 

I will quote Alex Shigo from his book 'Modern Arboriculture' ... 'Topping is a crime against nature. If a tree must be topped, then it is time for a new tree. Customer education is a major way to stop this practice. It will not be easy..'

 

Without wishing to sound harsh, maybe some in the industry also need to be reminded of this as well as the customer.

 

Cheers!

 

We are in a service industry, I provide a service, I give the customer the facts and try to encourage a better solution, BUT if the tree is going to be topped regardless, then I will do it.

 

I don't agree that a topped tree is worse than NO tree.

 

As for the SULE, I don't think you can say that topping ALWAYS ruins this, in so cases I would argue that it actually extends it.

 

Many of our oldest and most interesting trees are that way DUE to being topped.

[Ian C]

We are in a service industry, I provide a service, I give the customer the facts and try to encourage a better solution, BUT if the tree is going to be topped regardless, then I will do it.

 

I don't agree that a topped tree is worse than NO tree.

 

As for the SULE, I don't think you can say that topping ALWAYS ruins this, in so cases I would argue that it actually extends it.

 

Many of our oldest and most interesting trees are that way DUE to being topped.

 

Agree with both here and BBB, so many people talk about "pollarding" and really mean topping, pollarding is for young trees not mature ones but as Dave says were in a service industry, i would try convince the punter and get a new tree planted but if they want it topped i will do it, at the end of the day if we dont they will get some traveler to do it as there passing and end up with tears and breaks all over the place. Mr and Mrs bloggs could give a flying F... about "modern best practice or if you an AA contractor" they want a result for the least amount of money.....simple.

 

If the tree is in good health it will live after topping and has been said the reaction growth will be big, so in real terms its better coming out as in 5 years time the customers view will be blocked again and they will have a shite looking tree, only a stop gap measure in real tearms.

[fen01]

I agree with BBB about best practice. However, best practice doesn't always result in what the customer wants, so you end up with common (ish)practice, ie too much topping - bad aesthetics and bad for the tree.

 

But we all need to get paid, so if can't persued the customer, off comes the top! and in comes the ££s:001_smile: After all money talks, in most cases i'd rather it talks to me!

[gmanntpo]

Fair comments, money must be put in the pot, I know that from when I used to run a small tree firm.

 

It would however, appear that topping is alive and thriving in the modern arb industry, which is a shame!

 

As for Skyhucks comments, I said to myself last night 'someone is bound to say it extends tree life, look at all the oak pollards etc...'

 

The reason the old pollards have survived is because any decent oak etc was felled for ship building in the days of the Mary Rose, Napoleonic wars, ww1, ww2 etc. The pollards were left because they were obviously no good for timber. I contend that if this was not the case larger naturally growing trees would have equalled the longevity of the ancient pollards.

 

Nevertheless, there is still a big differance between how these trees were pollarded from a young age to produce timber products away from browsing animals and topping a tree that had not been subject to such management. A topped tree is NOT a true pollard tree.

 

Consequnetly, a topped tree will have a signifcantly reduced SULE, compared to a tree that has not been subject to such pruning. This is not my opinion, but a scientific fact.

 

If we in the industry can't improve standards, then what hope is there??

[gmanntpo]

Hmmm

 

I wish to make it clear that I intend no criticism to any individual who carries out this type of work...

 

Goddamm it money has to be earned and if your client won't listen and you have the mortgage to pay, kids to feed etc, what option do we have??

 

I'm being a bit self righteous, at least the work will be done by a pro and not a pikey. Thus at least damage will be minimised.

 

Before you ask, I'm sure I must have done similar work myself, although nothing springs to mind immediately....!

 

All I can say is use your skills and knowledge, pictures, anything that will make the client realise the error of their ways...

 

Cheers

[Simon Rotheram]

Hi, A question for the more experienced than me:

 

Will it survive shuch a dramatic pruning? I have told the customer that there is a good chance the tree won't last, but would get some second opinions, it is a nice tree so i would rather not kill it.

 

Cheers

 

The answere is not a difinitive one but I'm sure you have made your choice from the comments made.

 

Yes the tree will probably survive the drastic "topping" but SULE needs to be taken into account.

 

The customer needs to be educated in best practise and the benefits of either retention with less dramtic remedial pruning or fell and replace, but as a contractor you obviously want the job.

 

If all else fails top the sucker and dash with the cash!!

[Stephen Blair]

we can only work with what we are given, if the council leaves a row of big trees then allows a block of flats to be built then if one customer wants light and the other wants screen. you try recomending any other type of work. i live on the coast, houses are built on a terrace, one overlooking the other with a great view in front, so yes sycamores and hollies and gums that grow well on the coast can act as a great screen, cover a wide area and take a heavy prune. so they get topped, pollarded whatever you want to call it. i recomend other stuff but they arent interested, or they have bought a conifer from a garden centre with the famous words 'grows no more than 2m' on a label. i explain exactly to my customers what the trees will look like, what i recomend they should do, but as most folk are living in a house for about 10 years at a time now i recon then they arent bothered.