Subsidence

[Tom D]

Insurance companies are very jumpy about this but actually the chances of you being on a shrinkable clay are slim, look on the maps at the british geological survey (on line) and see if you are, if you aren't then the trees pose no problem.

[Chris at eden]

Insurance companies are very jumpy about this but actually the chances of you being on a shrinkable clay are slim, look on the maps at the british geological survey (on line) and see if you are, if you aren't then the trees pose no problem.

 

Those maps are fine for mortgage reports as long as you caveat them and there is no existing damage. You can't use them for a subs investigation. For one they are only accurate to within 20 miles. The online viewer is based on the S and D maps and they are not suitable in this instance.

 

Yes shrinkable clays only account for 1% of uk soils so chances are slim. But looking at it another way, trees are the most common cause of subsidence and cost the insurance industry £500m during event years so to write it off as unlikely is not a good idea. Subsidence itself is relatively rare but trees are still the most likely cause.

 

As Gary said earlier you need crack or better still level monitoring to determine whether trees are implicated.

[bankhouse builder]

Further to the varied posts about this subject.

Yes if you remove the trees you will get heave but this heave will close the cracks as I suspect the trees will have probably been planted after the property has been built so the ground will only go back to its original state of when it was constructed. I have seen the results of heave when a large number of trees had been removed just prior to the construction of a garage which was built on a highly shrinkable clay it had lifted the floor slab by 75mm and pushed the foundation blocks out by 25mm water is a powerful thing.

With regards to the insurance issue if no claim has been made for subsidence on the property then it will not be blighted it is only like having a dinted wing on your car and you pay to have it fixed.

The property which I discussed in my previous thread was bought at auction by a developer I work for he paid £175 k spent £20k with me and £6k with the engineer he then sold it 4 years later for £350k nothing flagged up with any mortgage surveyors and he insured it over the four year period at not an inflated premium. The property was a self build and the previous owners sued the engineer who designed the foundation for bad design he paid the difference between the auction value and the value if it was perfect.

Its your choice but if you can get the property at the right price which means a serious reduction from the price if it was perfect then its worth a look at . Me personally would have ago but this sort of thing is my cup of tea though it may seem daunting to others. Is the property detached? this helps

reduce complications.

[Gary Prentice]

Those maps are fine for mortgage reports as long as you caveat them and there is no existing damage. You can't use them for a subs investigation. For one they are only accurate to within 20 miles. The online viewer is based on the S and D maps and they are not suitable in this instance.

 

 

As Gary said earlier you need crack or better still level monitoring to determine whether trees are implicated.

 

Are the online BGS paid for subsidence reports any good?

Or just precautionary where no subsidence symptoms are already present?

 

 

Giles biddle demonstrated some level monitoring on a property where a brick course had dropped 28mm over one MONTH!

Subsidence can be very variable but almost impossible to predict. Lots of modelling was attempted by experts years back but testing proved something like only a 50% accuracy.

[DanBB]

Hi. Thanks for all the advice. We had the arborist report and the structural engineer report. There are a few issues with the house. Firstly it is on highly shrinkable soil. There are cracks under all upstairs windows, the garage which was built at a later and not tied in is separating and there is a boundary wall with serious movement. At the moment the surveyor thinks if all this is fixed the house should be ok to buy however after all the advice I got here I am not so sure, so any advice would be very much appreciated. I attached the arborist report, and a few picks of the movement/cracks. Thanks.

[fagus]

I wouldn't buy a property with problems so +1 for walk away.

[bankhouse builder]

Hi

I know this is a big decision for you to make and there are factors like it is the area you would most like to live you really like the house schools family ties in the area and your budget.

You have to look at this property in a different perspective ie a property developers view.

Choose which ever property you buy there are always risks the vendors could have bodged the cracks up put it on the market and they may have got away with it especially if it was over the winter months you may have paid full asking and then be still left with this problem to sort.

My honest and professional opinion on this one is.

It is no surprise that there is movement with that species and size of tree that close to the property they look like they were planted after the house was built and that they are definately the cause of these problems.

The damage from the photos looks repairable and over the years I have seen far worse.

I would ask your surveyor/engineer to provide a schedule of remedial works and to give some budget costings this will give you some idea of what you are letting yourself in for.

With that information to hand you are then in a position to negotiate with the vendors on price but always start low you can always work up to what you are prepared to pay.

The only stumbling block is the mortgage surveyor unless you are a cash buyer? they may retain part of the funds until the work is completed.

I personally would take this one on it doesn't look that bad it wont be a quick fix you will have to wait for the cracks to close up once the trees have been removed and then you may have to stitch the cracks with helifix bar and may be rebuild the boundary wall but I am surmising as I haven't seen the job your engineer will give you the right guidance his report sounds sensible and practical.

Please pm if you want any further advice

Good Luck

[peatff]

From your pictures the trees don't look that close to the house main structure. I can see how they would have affected the boundary wall but if the house is cracking and it doesn't look that old a building I would put it down to inadequate footings. Surveyors are notorious for covering themselves against all eventualities, has anyone dug down to check the ground under the cracking area ? If there are roots and they are damaging the brickwork they will be easily visible but if there is no evidence you could be looking at underpinning which will be expensive.

[peatff]

Sorry for the double post but the edit won't work due to time limit. The cracking inside under the window I would hack that off and look as it just appears to have separated from the brickwork, probably due to drying out too quick from the radiator heat or a bad mix. I've expanded the other pictures and I can't see anything that would cause the amount of concern your surveyor and tree person are exhibiting but the pictures are not great, how old is the house ?

[drinksloe]

Out of couriosity has the hose been extended/raised?

 

In ur 1st photo looks a very clear difference in brick colour directly below window, almost looks like they've added and extra 3ft to house when built upstairs. But does seem unlikely, just a really strange join the way the colours mix/meet.

And while u always get big variation between facing brick colours (why u always mix a few packs together) the way they are joined in looks unusual if just down to not mixing packs. I would of expected odd diffrent coloured 's along those bottom courses or darker 1's when they put there corners up (as often build them first to get ur lines/levels)

 

I'm not overly familiar with subsidence issues, but like many things in life, if u've recognised the problems u can make an offer at the right money and go in with ur eyes open. Occasionally u will still get ur fingers burned thou

The house obviouly has issues that would cause most folk (possibly lenders too) to walk away so it ur a bit handy and trust all the reports and they have picked up all the problems correctly u could be well positioned to get the house fairly cheap.

 

But if ur relying on trades to do most if ur work be aware it will cost a lot so u need to get it cheap, those tv programmes where they do ouss up for peanuts wish i could find there tradesmen/suppliers