QTRA...is it worth it?

[10 Bears]

Thanks for this Jules - mentioning those cases is a useful aide memoir to help me with something I am writing at the moment...

[Acer ventura]

I really have problems with the concept of QTRA. My personal opinion of course, but I believe it to be inherently flawed.

 

Hi 10 Bears

 

I'm interested in the reasons you believe QTRA is inherently flawed.

 

 

Its also the only tree assessment system, *that I am aware of*, that had its procedure and use considered in a legal case, and simply, the judge found it wanting as it demands a "fair degree of subjectivity" - and therefore isn't really *objectively* quantified at all.

 

The case was Goode Vs City of Burnside, 2007, if you are interested. To be fair there are some counter comments to the judges summing up from Mike Ellison, on the QTRA website - but if you read all the information carefully, Mike is just protecting his business and the judges views are spot on.

 

As Jules points out later on, Goode v Burnside isn't a legal case, nor is it precedent setting. There's a summary of its main points, including the problem with the QTRA undertaken, here.

 

Goode Judgment & QTRA

 

Cheers

 

Acer venutra

Edited March 20, 2016 by Acer ventura

[Acer ventura]

The grief I get from the QTRA folk is that I try and adapt QTRA, partly as improvements and partly as customisation, and you'd think I was trying to drive on the wrong side of the road.

 

Hi Jules

 

What goes on the QTRA forum stays on the QTRA forum because it is not for public access. However, as you've brought it up here, I'll give the other side of the story.

 

Any comments about how QTRA can be improved are very welcome and debate about them is encouraged. What is not encouraged is individual adaptations and customisations, particularly when they are highly questionable, that depart enough from QTRA guidance the tree risk assessment is no longer a 'QTRA'.

 

As you point out eslewhere in the thread. You won a tender to undertake a QTRA. I very much doubt they were after your 'improved' version of QTRA.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura

[Acer ventura]

Hello.

 

does anyone have experience of the QTRA course?

 

Hi Dilz

 

I'm a QTRA trainer so my experience might be biased:001_smile:. Unfortunately, I can't help you out beyond saying the feedback is usually very goood.

 

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of chat about the course on the thread so far. Perhaps Kevin and Jules could let you know, on or off forum, what they thought of it.

 

Paul Barton is another Arbtallker who I know was recently on it as well.

 

If you have any questions, please fire away.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura

[Acer ventura]

A person will not get an honest opinion about certain training providers on a public internet forum because of a long history of certain individuals bullying, badgering, and eventually silencing anyone who disagrees with them.

 

Hi James

 

These are serious allegations you make that could damage the reputation of QTRA. Anyone involved with QTRA training, or its development, has a zero tolerance to such behaviour. Could you please let me and/or Mike Ellison [email protected] know, off forum, when these incidences of ‘bullying’ and ‘badgering’ occurred, who was responsible, and what the moderators of the forums did about the 'bullying'.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura

[Paul Barton]

Hello.

 

does anyone have experience of the QTRA course? what kind of level is it at - Ive done tree risk assessments as part of other qualifications, but some u up coming potential contracts are looking favorably on those who have a completed a specific course dedicated to tree risk assessment.

 

Hi Dilz,

 

I did the QTRA training about 10 years ago, but didn't use it afterwards. I did the training again last year and found it much more approachable. Whether you end up using it or not, you will come out of the course with a better understanding of tree risk. I would highly recommend it.

[elspedo]

 

What goes on the QTRA forum stays on the QTRA forum

 

Are you getting QTRA confused with Fight Club?

[Acer ventura]

 

"What goes on the QTRA forum stays on the QTRA forum"

 

Are you getting QTRA confused with Fight Club?

 

Hi elspedo

 

I think you might be mixing up my take on ‘What happens on tour stays on tour’ with,

 

“The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club”.

 

Serendipitously, I’ve tweaked the fight club quote to play ‘Likelihood of Failure Club’ when using the ‘VaLiD’ Approach to Estimating Likelihood of Failure. “The first rule of Likelihood of Failure Club is: You do not talk about Likelihood of Failure Club”. Some Arbtalkers may have seen me present VaLiD at the Arboricultural Association conference last year. I’ve been trialling it in Australia, with some great results, and will be tweaking it in the UK before it taking it to present at an ISA Tree Academy Workshop in Texas in August. I’ll let you know on here when it’s ready to have a play with.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Hi elspedo

 

I think you might be mixing up my take on ‘What happens on tour stays on tour’ with,

 

“The first rule of Fight Club is: You do not talk about Fight Club”.

 

Serendipitously, I’ve tweaked the fight club quote to play ‘Likelihood of Failure Club’ when using the ‘VaLiD’ Approach to Estimating Likelihood of Failure. “(1) The first rule of Likelihood of Failure Club is: You do not talk about Likelihood of Failure Club”. Some Arbtalkers may have seen me present VaLiD at the Arboricultural Association conference last year. (2) I’ve been trialling it in Australia, with some great results, and will be tweaking it in the UK before it taking it to present at an ISA Tree Academy Workshop in Texas in August. (3) I’ll let you know on here when it’s ready to have a play with.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura

 

(1) The first rule is...... You can't talk about the first rule......?

 

(2) You started talking about it!!

 

(3) That would be a breach of the first rule?

 

Movies are easier than PoF! Dammit, now I'm doing it!

 

There's an obvious and fatal (not in the human sense) flaw in the business plan if you take the "fight club' approach to QTRA promotion!

 

For the OP, I attended the training last year. The venue and facilities were first class and the catering was exceptional. I found the QTRA concept to be thought provoking, interesting and highly credible. The training delivery was exceptionally enthusiastic, engaging and enjoyable. I've used the process since completing the training. I've secured contracts that have had QTRA as a pre-requisite and the initial investment on training has been re-paid within months of completing the course.

 

Only the OP can make the decision if the cost / benefit works for them, or if they think the process is credible. For my part, I'd be happy to say take a punt and see how you get on - I'm glad I did.

[Acer ventura]

(1) The first rule is...... You can't talk about the first rule......?

 

(2) You started talking about it!!

 

(3) That would be a breach of the first rule?

 

Hi Kevin

 

But I haven't revealed the Third Rule of 'Likelihood of Failure Club', yet.

 

The all-important giving yourself permission to change your mind for the third vote. That changing your mind is a strength, not a weakness.

 

Cheers

 

Acer ventura