Greys Vs Reds - Come on you Martens!

[Taupotreeman]

Aye been throu some areas a few years after drops and been in a few areas where got a lot of land based feed stations.

 

 

 

Got mixed views on it, on 1 hand think its great that NZ gov/DoC are trying to look after there native fuana after we have made such a mess of it. Really is an amzing place that i'd hate to see destroyed, by all the stupid thing we released.

 

 

 

But i do feel bad for the animals die like that, but in fairness in NZ (almost) any mammal thats eats it is invasive and non native.

 

Can't see any other real alternative as country is so vast and in accessable.

 

 

 

 

 

When i was out in OZ they 'claimed' most native animals had some resistance to it as it was derived from the flame retardant in tree bark, so most predators have evolved a restistance to it over the years where cats and foxes don't.

 

 

It's the secondary poisoning that's bad. Hawks, fish etc. anything that feeds on the rotting carcasses. Plus, DoC aren't always spot on with its drop zones. Myself and many others hate the stuff. Nothing here has any resistance to it and dogs are particularly susceptible. Walk through the bush after a drop and it's quiet, no bird song, nothing. It should be bloody banned, the same as it is in many countries.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Taupotreeman

[drinksloe]

It's the secondary poisoning that's bad. Hawks, fish etc. anything that feeds on the rotting carcasses. Plus, DoC aren't always spot on with its drop zones. Myself and many others hate the stuff. Nothing here has any resistance to it and dogs are particularly susceptible. Walk through the bush after a drop and it's quiet, no bird song, nothing. It should be bloody banned, the same as it is in many countries.

 

But wot other options are there?

 

Or are the possoms, deer and stoats not really causing that mutch damage to the native flora and fauna?

 

Done some hunting out there, mates out there are mad keen and obviously anti 1080.

But i do wish this countries government had the balls to stand up and make difficult hoices that will upset folk to preserve our wildlife which is totally screwed in this country.

 

Not really agreeing with the use of 1080, but if possums etc are causing problems i can't see any other vaible means to control them, athou u could probably say 1080 isnae working either as populations not decreasing

 

Ps about the resistance i was refering to Australia, forget the name of the posion now, think it began with an R, long time since i've been in oZ

[Taupotreeman]

But wot other options are there?

 

 

 

Or are the possoms, deer and stoats not really causing that mutch damage to the native flora and fauna?

 

 

 

Done some hunting out there, mates out there are mad keen and obviously anti 1080.

 

But i do wish this countries government had the balls to stand up and make difficult hoices that will upset folk to preserve our wildlife which is totally screwed in this country.

 

 

 

Not really agreeing with the use of 1080, but if possums etc are causing problems i can't see any other vaible means to control them, athou u could probably say 1080 isnae working either as populations not decreasing

 

 

 

Ps about the resistance i was refering to Australia, forget the name of the posion now, think it began with an R, long time since i've been in oZ

 

 

To be fair, I'm not that clued up but there has to be a better option than dumping millions of tonnes of poison all over our forests. Problem is, those other options are probably going to cost a lot of money. I doubt they'll ever get on top of the problem no matter what they do.

[Mick Dempsey]

But wot other options are there?

 

Or are the possoms, deer and stoats not really causing that mutch damage to the native flora and fauna?

 

Done some hunting out there, mates out there are mad keen and obviously anti 1080.

But i do wish this countries government had the balls to stand up and make difficult hoices that will upset folk to preserve our wildlife which is totally screwed in this country.

 

Not really agreeing with the use of 1080, but if possums etc are causing problems i can't see any other vaible means to control them, athou u could probably say 1080 isnae working either as populations not decreasing

 

Ps about the resistance i was refering to Australia, forget the name of the posion now, think it began with an R, long time since i've been in oZ

 

How is the wildlife totally screwed in the uk?

[drinksloe]

How is the wildlife totally screwed in the uk?

 

 

Do u walk about with ur eyes shut?

 

I'm not that old but in my lifetime the local area has changed massively, once common birds are now almost exticnt locally. Actualy quite rare to see any waders now and definately no succesfully breeding pairs.

Look on the BTO site and see the ammount of birds species declines by over 70% in last 30 years.

Wild Grey partrdige used to be the staple bird for shooting and if u look at the game returns were shooting hundreds of thousands if not millins every year nationwide, Black grouse used to be present in every english county now only left on grouse moors

 

The nature reserve i'm on committee for refuses to kill any predators, yet we have only fledged 1 mallard duckiling this year and none the previous 4 years. (prob got 50ish resident mallard possibly 4 nest attempts at 10+ eggs each, thats a massive failure rate) Wildlife comes to our reserve to die or be eaten.

Probably like most reserves actually doing far more harm than good by attracting higher prey densities in only to make it easy for vermin.

 

The only good thing we have is lots of red squirrels, quite famous for them, sometimes 15+ around the feeders, yet catching greys all around now and a few on the committee are also against killing the greys :banghead:

 

 

U've also got ur hedgehogs in a massive decline. bumble bees, even in this area hardly ant rabbits nowaays either due to mixi (which in latter years wasnae really affecting them that much) or VHD or predation.

 

If u look at ur trees look at the diseases we've imported SOD in oaks, Ash dieback, PR in larch (my area is going to be a larch free area soon) most due to poor bio security.

 

Not really a glass half empty type person but as far as i can see our wildlife is on way out, and most of the 'conservation charties' are doing more harm than good by caring more for donations than the birds

[drinksloe]

To be fair, I'm not that clued up but there has to be a better option than dumping millions of tonnes of poison all over our forests. Problem is, those other options are probably going to cost a lot of money. I doubt they'll ever get on top of the problem no matter what they do.

 

 

While i dinae agree with the widespread pioson drops i just can't see how in some areas u could do it any other way.

Assuming the possums and others are causing so much damage, i don't know enough to know if they could be left un culled or if that would rape ur forrests?

 

Last time i was kucky enough to be out we heli'd in to foirdland to do some white baiting i done some 'tramping'. The size and scale of that place blew my mind with just how remote it is. The cabin we were at was meant to be a 4 day walk only 1 way in/out and nothing else for hundreds of miles.

I've cut in soime big commercial forrests and driving 10 or even 20 miles in to a job is not unusual, and generally if something happened ur not that far of a track or to the nearest house.

Over there there really is absolutely nothing

 

To be fair they were poisoning and trapping that area with hoppers but still seen plenty sign of deer and pigs and next group in had some pig dogs with them.

Done the routeburn and greenstone tracks too, lot of trapping going on there for stoats

[Mick Dempsey]

Do u walk about with ur eyes shut?

 

I'm not that old but in my lifetime the local area has changed massively, once common birds are now almost exticnt locally. Actualy quite rare to see any waders now and definately no succesfully breeding pairs.

Look on the BTO site and see the ammount of birds species declines by over 70% in last 30 years.

Wild Grey partrdige used to be the staple bird for shooting and if u look at the game returns were shooting hundreds of thousands if not millins every year nationwide, Black grouse used to be present in every english county now only left on grouse moors

 

The nature reserve i'm on committee for refuses to kill any predators, yet we have only fledged 1 mallard duckiling this year and none the previous 4 years. (prob got 50ish resident mallard possibly 4 nest attempts at 10+ eggs each, thats a massive failure rate) Wildlife comes to our reserve to die or be eaten.

Probably like most reserves actually doing far more harm than good by attracting higher prey densities in only to make it easy for vermin.

 

The only good thing we have is lots of red squirrels, quite famous for them, sometimes 15+ around the feeders, yet catching greys all around now and a few on the committee are also against killing the greys :banghead:

 

 

U've also got ur hedgehogs in a massive decline. bumble bees, even in this area hardly ant rabbits nowaays either due to mixi (which in latter years wasnae really affecting them that much) or VHD or predation.

 

If u look at ur trees look at the diseases we've imported SOD in oaks, Ash dieback, PR in larch (my area is going to be a larch free area soon) most due to poor bio security.

 

Not really a glass half empty type person but as far as i can see our wildlife is on way out, and most of the 'conservation charties' are doing more harm than good by caring more for donations than the birds

 

Well it's difficult to understand your rather mixed message, you bemoan the decline of rabbits, seriously? Firstly I don't believe for one second they are in any trouble, and even if they were, they are an introduced species, you do know that don't you? They are suffering from predation are they? I tell you what lets eliminate some predators, pine martens eat them I hear, start with them.

What's the name of the nature reserve?

Edited January 10, 2016 by Mick Dempsey

[drinksloe]

But surely if a species has been here around 2000ish year it has a bit of squaters rights??

If ur going to class everything that came over from roman times on as non native/invasive they're will be a lot of very familar species in that group.

 

My point with the rabbits if something as resilient and able to breed to almost plauge proportions is struggling and almost extinct in a few local areas where it used to be plentiful, many other animals are going to struggle that are not such prolific breeders.

Disease is mainly responsible for the rabbits but now when they are at the lowest they are struggling to build up population again because of predation. rabbits have always been boom/bust since mixi arrived, usually just had to wait a few years for them to recover and survivors tended to be more resistant to the next bout of disease

 

 

To turn it on its head wot species would u say are thriving and really doing well, increasing populations and ranges?

[Mick Dempsey]

Increasing its range, at least in the south east, buzzards and red kites.

[timbernut]

Yea definately buzzards, 15 years ago it was still a bit special to see a buzzard round here (South Norfolk), it was more common to see a marsh harrier! Now we regularly see buzzards into double figures together and last couple of years red kites been making regular appearances