Advice on survey with some odd findings

[Quercus-90]

Hi all,

 

Working on a big quote, I've got a report from a well known arb firm that I have been working from.

 

But I'm coming unstuck a bit!

 

One element that has been added to the suggested works is " apply spray for leaf minor" on a holm oak !?

I've inspected the tree and see no sign ( didn't even know it affected oaks)

 

Also there is suggestions for the installation of steel bracing..., which I thought is an out of date practice?

I would either remove the tree as it's near a very main road, or reduce to remove the risk of failure or cobra her up?

 

Also to quote for is the application of "fire jel" to deter birds nesting and fouling... Never herd of it! Do we need a ticket!? Where the hell can I buy it !?

 

Also on the list is suggestion that two very mature oaks to "initiate veteranisation" which I'll be honest is out of my depth and I'm not about to go hacking up two stunning trees, but I see no need for this either!? Trees are in good health! Could do with deadwooding for safety as over footpaths.... Ain't broke don't fix it in my opinion.

 

I am looking for someone with the relevant Certs, know how, and equipment, to servey a further 20 trees or so, some are very!! Large poplars that require decay testing.

 

 

Sorry it's a long one guys, thanks in advance.

[Quercus-90]

http://www.nomorebirds.co.uk/bird%2Dfree%2Dfire%2Dgel%2Dkit%7E242

 

Ok so found the fire gel. So that element is sorted!

[sean]

Hi all,

 

Working on a big quote, I've got a report from a well known arb firm that I have been working from.

 

But I'm coming unstuck a bit!

 

One element that has been added to the suggested works is " apply spray for leaf minor" on a holm oak !?

I've inspected the tree and see no sign ( didn't even know it affected oaks)

 

Also there is suggestions for the installation of steel bracing..., which I thought is an out of date practice?

I would either remove the tree as it's near a very main road, or reduce to remove the risk of failure or cobra her up?

 

Also to quote for is the application of "fire jel" to deter birds nesting and fouling... Never herd of it! Do we need a ticket!? Where the hell can I buy it !?

 

Also on the list is suggestion that two very mature oaks to "initiate veteranisation" which I'll be honest is out of my depth and I'm not about to go hacking up two stunning trees, but I see no need for this either!? Trees are in good health! Could do with deadwooding for safety as over footpaths.... Ain't broke don't fix it in my opinion.

 

I am looking for someone with the relevant Certs, know how, and equipment, to servey a further 20 trees or so, some are very!! Large poplars that require decay testing.

 

 

Sorry it's a long one guys, thanks in advance.

 

"Initiate veteranisation" on two mature Oaks is a strange one. Veteranisation techniques are usually used on younger trees to mimic storm damage etc and speed up decay process for habitat creation etc.

 

Retrenchment pruning can be carried out as part of a long term management plan to hopefully instigate lower growth so over time the crown can be reduced. A specification for such works needs to be quite detailed with %'s and time frames etc.

[Betula]

Was it Bartlett's by any chance who did the survey? Sounds similar to the reports I've seen them do not too far from your area

[10 Bears]

Well, fire gel is a new one on me too. Thanks for posting the link as my next move was to look it up. The website does say it can be used in trees, but, it also advises to silicone the trays in place for use! I would not recommend siliconing any plastic trays on to trees as part of my usual consultancy work!

 

The initiation of veteranisation is not too unusual in practice ie it can be a sensible option in some circumstances eg conservation of habitat etc, but again, it is so rarely appropriate that it does not often feature in my work. There may be a justification for the veteranisation as Sean says above, for long term management protocols, but your having seen the situation, is there really justification for it?

 

My gut feeling is the survey advice is somewhat from the text book, rather than from the consideration of a breadth of applied knowledge in different situations. I could be wrong but I can't help but wonder if the surveyor is a fairly recent graduate?

 

My advice though, is to go back to the original surveyor either through the mutual client or directly, and ask for a specification for each element that you are unsure of.

 

There is absolutely no harm in asking, and if they are a consultant worth their salt, they would be pleased that you wanted to do the job right rather than to crack on regardless and get it wrong...

[Quercus-90]

Thanks for replys guys,

 

Exactly my thoughts on the oaks and I'm not sure how they would manage creating habitat because it will eventually lead to deadwood which will have to be removed as the trees are both over cars/roads and footpaths.

 

Haha I'm sure we can all guess who the report is by! But I'm not naming or shaming or saying any of it's wrong.

 

I'm just saying that in my opinion I would take a different approach to managing the mentioned trees.

As ultimately they are being maintained for safety and amenity aesthetical purposes.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Hi all,

 

Also on the list is suggestion that two very mature oaks to "initiate veteranisation" which I'll be honest is out of my depth and I'm not about to go hacking up two stunning trees, but I see no need for this either!? Trees are in good health! Could do with deadwooding for safety as over footpaths.... Ain't broke don't fix it in my opinion.

 

.

 

That seems a strange concept? Leave them be and they'll do it themselves springs to mind??

 

Hopefully someone will be along to offer an insight into the possible reason / method of undertaking such an action - or confirm the questionable nature of such proposal?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Just been trying to find a source of info that might support the "initiate veteranisation" concept.

 

Nothing really in Ancient & other veteran trees: further guidance on management, or Ancient Tree Guide no.7: Ancient Trees for the Future, but a quick google kicked up this -

 

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/city-commons/ashtead-common/wildlife-and-nature/Documents/City-commons-veteranisation-information.pdf

 

and this -

 

http://www.pro-natura.net/publikat-filer/Veteranisation%20of%20oak_paper_Bengtsson%20et%20al_Sheffield.pdf

 

another school day!

[Paul Barton]

 

My advice though, is to go back to the original surveyor either through the mutual client or directly, and ask for a specification for each element that you are unsure of.

 

There is absolutely no harm in asking, and if they are a consultant worth their salt, they would be pleased that you wanted to do the job right rather than to crack on regardless and get it wrong...

 

 

Absolutely right. Sounds like it would be a valuable learning experience for both parties!

[Andymacp]

Steel cable bracing is not out dated, it has it uses and has a completely different installation reason that cobra.

Cobra generally allows the tree to move and breath.

Steel bar and bracing is used more for static bracing.