Elm for building

[John Shutler]

get some good solid windows made up from seasoned oak, that will help to stop the structure twisting to much because as its a summer house it will be lacking the weight you would have if it were a garage etc, infill betwwen the oak with studwork with good solid diagonal bracing.id normally go with seasoned softwood for this, but it depends if its going to be seen,another option is to clad the outside of the studwork with ply then tyvek over it and clad with oak, i could go on and on

[Stephen Blair]

john, you never stop amazing me mate:cool1:

[tommer9]

get some good solid windows made up from seasoned oak, that will help to stop the structure twisting to much because as its a summer house it will be lacking the weight you would have if it were a garage etc, infill betwwen the oak with studwork with good solid diagonal bracing.id normally go with seasoned softwood for this, but it depends if its going to be seen,another option is to clad the outside of the studwork with ply then tyvek over it and clad with oak, i could go on and on

 

Having said that, if constructed correctly with knee braces and decent mortice/tenon joints going through the depth of the timber and pegged properly then there wil be no twisting, and TBH the likes of tyvek or Ruberoid can be stretched taut and not require any nasty cls studwork. I would have said that it depends how you are finishing the interior of the structure. If it is to be plastered etc on the inside then you will obviously need studwork anyway, but if you were wood panelling it for example- i have seen very nice finishes in oak structures with reclaimed (pitch) pine flooring- you could just put sheets of kingspan/ celotex etc in the frame and panel over it. It always strikes me as a shame to go to the expense etc of building traditional and beautiful structures to then stick ply and osb to them.

 

What are you using as a roof Dean......had you thought about cedar or oak shingles to really set the building off?

[Stephen Blair]

there is a lot of knowledge flying around this thread, i would love to learn more about it, but i need to do hands on before i can take it in to get the reasoning behind it. Tommer do you fancy building my balcony, i would love a green oak one, but i know i will end up with a metal frame cls special. i can soon find some oak and i know a man with a mill.

[Paul646]

I would keep all the timber nice big and chunky, the reason to use wet timber is because its easer to work with and will not kill your tools, lay out all your timber get them on level trestles, once you feel happy with it start to scribing using plumb bobs levels and if done correct you will have the perfect joint, but keep all the tenon’s and mortise’s simple, and put in wind braces, most important when drilling holes for the tenon peg hole make sure the hole is drilled slightly offset from the mortise peg hole.

[Al Smith]

A properly timber framed building will last for centurys .The type wood used was pretty much dictated by what was available locally .My fathers' timber framed barn was make around 1900 and is framed of sugar maple .

 

A few still stand that were framed of oak and build most likely 1870 . It makes since that the British Isles would have older buildings .Many have fallen to disrepair on this side of the big pond .

 

The craft of timber framing is nearly a lost art these days . From what little I undersatand at it the framing was erected from undried or green timbers .Any planking,finished lumber etc would most likely be better to be dried .Air drying will get it to 12-13 percent moisture which is fine for an outside structure .

 

Inside stuff is best to taken to what is called stabilizing moisture content which is 8 or 9 percent .

[tommer9]

A properly timber framed building will last for centurys .The type wood used was pretty much dictated by what was available locally .My fathers' timber framed barn was make around 1900 and is framed of sugar maple .

 

A few still stand that were framed of oak and build most likely 1870 . It makes since that the British Isles would have older buildings .Many have fallen to disrepair on this side of the big pond .

 

The craft of timber framing is nearly a lost art these days . From what little I undersatand at it the framing was erected from undried or green timbers .Any planking,finished lumber etc would most likely be better to be dried .Air drying will get it to 12-13 percent moisture which is fine for an outside structure .

 

Inside stuff is best to taken to what is called stabilizing moisture content which is 8 or 9 percent .

 

really interesting post that Al. In this country you would be very very lucky to get below 20% m.c through air drying. There are still many timber framers working over here too, it seems to have realy taken off again as theeconomy grew through the late nineties and last 9 years, and environmental building practices re-emerged in popularity. Interestingly enough we have re-imported from the U.S. the idea of timber framing- albeit using glu-lam beams as much as traditional methods such as oak.

 

You guys have the advantage of a much drier climate than over here, which is why you can get away with using timbers such as sugar maple which would rot very quickly over here. Also as oak is a native species and somewhat of a pioneer species, which will grow in almost any conditions, we have had quite alot of it in the past, and much has been planted for the reason of building too, hence the reason it was the traditional wood used, aside from its strength and durability properties.

 

I think that also most people will use timber with a m.c of 12-13% for internal work such as flooring etc, and most kilns aim for around this amount in this country. For furniture or flooring with underfloor heating a lower m.c is achieved, closer to 6-8%. Quite often if the timber is destined for windows and external doors, the carpenter will allow the wood to re-absorb a bit of moisture to aclimatise it in advance to the normal external m.c of the environment, otherwise there is a danger that there will be movement after fitting and coming into contact with damper conditions.

 

I would love to have the conditions you describe Al, as i have a limited market as i dont have a kiln or access to one of any really viable usefuness.

[Xerxses]

could that be one of the reasons elm was traditionally used for coffins then, xerxses? i know it was used for ships masts as it was strong and flexed enough that it didn't snap under the tension and torsion of the sails.

Dont know about coffins...

but I do know they used elm for blocks and stuff since the wood is kinda oily so blocks didnt need greasing...

[tommer9]

Dont know about coffins...

but I do know they used elm for blocks and stuff since the wood is kinda oily so blocks didnt need greasing...

 

I have never heard of elm self lubricating? Lignum vitae, among a few other woods, does that. Elm doesnt burn very well and is very hard when seasoned, and will withstand the abuse and friction/ heat that rigging pulleys on boats will give it. It also doesnt split in those applications.

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

All I know about Elm as a timber product is that it was the wood of choice for all the best furniture seats. Ercol for example - beech legs and back and elm seat. My mother had such a set - english elm seats - beautiful stuff.